Re: Rye-Oyster Bay Br--sister Bridge?

On Mar 7, 12:24 am, David of Broadway <david.of.broad...@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Rothman wrote:
On Mar 6, 5:00 pm, hanco...@xxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
On Mar 5, 4:42 pm, "Rothman" <dnro...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

I suppose transit-freaks will pop up now claiming that we need to get
more people on a form of transportation that doesn't run on their
schedule or carry their groceries for them...Transit is a supplement
to pavement, not a replacement...
Within NYC the buses and subways run so frequently and with such
density that no schedule is needed in most cases. That is, they do
run on your schedule. Getting groceries home from the supermarket (or
other large items) remains a challenge. Travel outside NYC where
buses run much less often and much more dispersed also remains a
challenge.

Bull. I was just in NYC and had to wait far too long for a subway
than I cared for. Wish I could have driven everywhere that I needed
to go.

So why didn't you? NYC has roads too.

NYC hasn't adequately planned for drivers. Wouldn't be able to find
parking driving to everywhere I needed to go. Instead, I have to be
inconvenienced by having to take transit and waiting for them to show
up, rather than just being able to drive my car into a parking spot.

Unfortunately, when everybody says nothing can be built anymore then
there is a problem. The big advtg of transit is a much smaller and
less invasive footprint. Light rail lines are very quiet, commuter
trains nearly so. (I live next to a train, no problem. The highways
far away I can still hear.) You can bury or trench a trolley much
more easily than a highway. You can squeeze a trolley through a
narrow single track cut; you can't narrow a highway passage.

Rails are very expensive to lay.

As are roads. But one track can carry a heck of a lot more people per
hour than one highway lane.

Take a look athttp://www.nymtc.org/files/hub_bound/HB2004_part2.pdf-
page 22 (Table 14). On a fall business day in 2004, the two southbound
subway tracks underneath Lexington Avenue carried 28,940 + 25,305 =
54,245 passengers across the 60th Street cordon line between 8 and 9 in
the morning, while the three(?) lanes on the street above carried only
1,807 in that same time period (not including the 1,161 on the bus). In
other words, 93% of the people entering the Manhattan CBD on Lexington
Avenue in the peak hour of the AM rush did so on the subway.

Imagine how many lanes would be needed to simulate the functionality of
those two tracks alone! Consider that the /total/ number of people
entering the Manhattan CBD by private automobile (from the north, east,
and west) is merely 76,048. Of course, the Lexington Avenue line isn't
the only subway line to enter the Manhattan CBD -- if my count is
correct, there are 32 subway tracks penetrating the CBD cordon (16
northbound and 16 southbound), and that doesn't include commuter rail,
Amtrak, PATH, ferries, or exclusive bus lanes.

And, except for the three that cross bridges over the East River, those
subway tracks, carrying 369,043 people into the CBD between 8 and 9, are
all underground, where they don't take up valuable space or keep the
neighbors awake.

If our goal is to move people, then why would we even /dream/ of

Rail's still more expensive to build than roads.

As others mentioned, traffic jams eliminate convenience. I can't go
to the mall when I want because of jams, I must plan my trips around
them. Likewise for other places as well.

No big deal. Transit still takes more time to get to the places I
want to go.

Good for you. Do you want a cookie?

Yes.

One would the wealthy would be for such new roads since they would
greatly benefit from them. They do a lot of travel and have more
diverse needs; as does their businesses. Most people won't be in the
path or affected by some new road, tough-*#%@ for those who are. Of
course we know now that even Moses couldn't build around most of the
rich and had to bend for them.

I see more than the wealthy driving around on pavement.

Compare the average income of a subway rider with the average income of
a motorist in NYC. (And in NYC, the wealthy don't hesitate to ride
transit, unlike in most other U.S. cities.)

Show me who claims to have reliable data towards that effect, and I've
got a bridge for you to buy.

.