Re: 26 USC 7701(c)



InquiringMindsWantToKnow wrote:
"nat" <esenter@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:46C8AAE7.8050306@xxxxxxxxxxxx



Ok, therefore your hypothetical ONLY INCLUDES A, B, and C. As used in
Title 26 and pursuant to 7701(c), nothing else is included.


7. Not even anything else that is {otherwise within the definition of
the term defined}?

Things "otherwise within the meaning of the term defined" are NOT
EXCLUDED.

13. Are these your words: {Only those things following "includes" is
included.}?
(Search the post that this is in reply to, or scroll down to where you

state

those words.)

Yes.


1. So when I show you an actual Term defined by Congress, are you going to
admit that {Only those things following "includes" is included}?

Well, duh.




14. Are these your words: {Ok, therefore your hypothetical ONLY INCLUDES

A,

B, and C. As used in Title 26 and pursuant to 7701(c), nothing else is
included.}

Yes.



2. So when I show you an actual Term defined by Congress, are you going to
admit that {As used in Title 26 and pursuant to 7701(c), nothing else is
included} in that term?

Well, duh, again.





TITLE 26 - INTERNAL REVENUE CODE
Subtitle [redacted]
CHAPTER [redacted]

-HEAD-
Sec. [redacted]. Definitions

-STATUTE-
([redacted]) [redacted]
For purposes of this chapter, the term "T" includes includes Edsel,
Mustang, or Thunderbird.




If Congress had given MEANING to T, they would have said, "T
means thus and such..."


19. Are you now going to argue that the DEFINITION of a term is NOT the
MEANING of a term?

Ding, ding, that's what I have been arguing all along.



def·i·ni·tion n. 1.a. A statement conveying fundamental character. b. A
statement of the meaning of a word, phrase, or term, as in a dictionary
entry. 2. The act or process of stating a precise meaning or significance;
formulation of a meaning. 3.a. The act of making clear and distinct

mean·ing n. 1. Something that is conveyed or signified; sense or
significance.

3. Would you like to try again?

Let me reiterate for the slow of mind. When Congress uses 'means', they are conveying a fundamental character to a term that is totally different than when they use 'includes(ing)'.





20. Are you now going to argue that the DEFINITION that Congress put in

a

DEFINITION statute is NOT the meaning of the term Congress has defined?

Is 7701(c) still the subject of this thread, ding ding?


def·i·ni·tion n. 1.a. A statement conveying fundamental character. b. A
statement of the meaning of a word, phrase, or term, as in a dictionary
entry. 2. The act or process of stating a precise meaning or significance;
formulation of a meaning. 3.a. The act of making clear and distinct

mean·ing n. 1. Something that is conveyed or signified; sense or
significance.

4. Would you like to try again?

Let me reiterate again for the slow of mind. When Congress uses 'means', they are conveying a fundamental character to a term that is totally different than when they use 'includes(ing)'.





21. Are you now going to argue that when Congress words a DEFINITION

statute

in this format: {For purposes of this chapter, the term "T" includes
includes Edsel, Mustang, or Thunderbird.}, Congress does NOT MEAN that

term

"T" touches Edsels, Mustangs, or Thunderbirds?


You did NOT answer the question. My bad, since I wasn't as clear as I could
be. I will re-word it slightly to correct the lack of clarity.

Oh, I answered. You just didn't like the answer. Just because you rearrange the words, that doesn't mean you have provided any more insight.



5. Are you now going to argue that when Congress words a DEFINITION statute
in this format: {For purposes of this chapter, the term "T" includes
includes Edsel, Mustang, or Thunderbird.}, Congress does NOT MEAN to include
Edsels, Mustangs, or Thunderbirds in that term?


[Y]ou need to get into your head that when
Congress uses "includes(ing)", Congress is not using "means". They are
two different concepts.


Your assertion carries no weight.

Then you must not be talking about 7701(c).




6. Does a statutory definition give statutory meaning to a statutorily
defined term?

duh.


7. If you answer "no" to question 6, Does a statutory definition give NO
meaning to a statutorily defined term?

duh.


8. How can anybody know what is acted upon by a law that acts upon term "T"
if term "T" has no meaning?

The term has meaning. 'Includes(ing)' just does not state that meaning. 'Includes(ing) adds to the meaning. The meaning of the term is presupposed.





22. Are these your words: {Ok, therefore your hypothetical ONLY INCLUDES

A,

B, and C. As used in Title 26 and pursuant to 7701(c), nothing else is
included.}?

Yes.


23. When A = Edsel, B = Mustang, and C = Thunderbird, is this a proper
conversion of your words: {Ok, therefore your hypothetical ONLY INCLUDES
Edsel, Mustang, and Thunderbird. As used in Title 26 and pursuant to
7701(c), nothing else is included.}?

Yes.


9. Are you aware that what you call InquiringMindsWantsToKnow's
"hypothetical" is actually an exact duplicate of a Congressionally defined
term with the term's descripter changed to "T" and the included objects
changed to A, B, and C?

duh.


10. Are you aware that what you call InquiringMindsWantsToKnow's
"hypothetical" is actually an exact duplicate of a Congressionally defined
term with the term's descripter changed to "T" and the included objects
changed to Edsel, Mustang, and Thunderbird?

duh.


11. So when I show you an actual Term defined by Congress, are you going to
admit that {As used in Title 26 and pursuant to 7701(c), nothing else is
included} in that term?

That is what 7701(c) says.
Why would you include other items? That would be changing the intent of Congress.






.

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