Re: 26 USC 7701(c)

"InquiringMindsWantToKnow" <InquiringMindsWantToKnow@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote in message news:13cf1qr5gku5a8a@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Now, can inquiring mindless explain why his entire line of questioning
is specious misdieection from 7701(c)'s meaning and relevance?

"nat" <esenter@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:46C67AAC.403@xxxxxxxxxxxx

Is your question philosophical because it doesn't appear
to be about 7701(c)?

1. Isn't this a fun game when you know exactly what my questions are
about,
and I know exactly why your "beliefs" about 7701(c) are in error?

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Do you understand that 'includes only' is different than 'only
includes'? The former is limiting and the latter is expansive as when
used in 7701(c).


Set A includes only items 1, 2, 3, and 4.
Set B only includes items 1, 2, 3, and 4.

1. How is set A different from set B?

Are you asking a philosophical question or is the subject still 7701(c)?

I'm checking your implied assertion, to wit: {Do you understand that
'includes only' is different than 'only includes'?} for validity.

Set A includes only items 1, 2, 3, and 4.
Set B only includes items 1, 2, 3, and 4.

Since you want to play dumb to avoid the issue, I'll simplify it even
more.

2. Does set A contain item 1?
3. Does set B contain item 1?
4. Does set A contain item 2?
5. Does set B contain item 2?
6. Does set A contain item 3?
7. Does set B contain item 3?
8. Does set A contain item 4?
9. Does set B contain item 4?

10. Does set A contain any item not contained in set B?
11. Does set B contain any item not contained in set A?

12. Now answer the question, How is set A different from set B?

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2. Or did I state {Term T includes object A, B, C.}?
This is in EXACTLY the same format as certain definitions of terms
given in
Title 26. The only thing missing is the actual objects denoted by
object
labels A, B, and C.

Ok, therefore your hypothetical ONLY INCLUDES A, B, and C. As used in
Title 26 and pursuant to 7701(c), nothing else is included.


7. Not even anything else that is {otherwise within the definition of
the
term defined}?

Things "otherwise within the meaning of the term defined" are NOT
EXCLUDED.

13. Are these your words: {Only those things following "includes" is
included.}?
(Search the post that this is in reply to, or scroll down to where you
state
those words.)

14. Are these your words: {Ok, therefore your hypothetical ONLY INCLUDES
A,
B, and C. As used in Title 26 and pursuant to 7701(c), nothing else is
included.}


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Do you understand that 7701(c) rules how "includes" is to be construed
in Title 26?

Yes.

15. Are the {7701(c) rules how "includes" is to be construed in Title 26}
the rules that determine what term T means when term T is defined in this
format: {For the purposes of this chapter, the term "T" includes A, B, or
C}?


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Moving on to the next level: Another made up statute STILL in exactly
the
same format:
{For the purposes of this chapter, the term "T" includes Edsel,
Mustang,
or
Thunderbird}.

11. Now what is the meaning of T?

You tell me: T means _________________.

You have been given the definition EXACTLY as such definitions are given
in
Title 26.

16. Are these your words: {Ok, therefore your hypothetical ONLY INCLUDES
A,
B, and C. As used in Title 26 and pursuant to 7701(c), nothing else is
included.}

17. Is it true then, By your words, T ONLY (your addition) INCLUDES
Edsels,
Mustangs, or Thunderbirds?




Congress has given the meaning of T. Congress has stated {For the
purposes
of this chapter, the term "T" includes Edsel, Mustang, or Thunderbird}.

Nope.

18. Do you understand that I used the EXACT FORMAT as found in several
Title
26 DEFINITIONS sections?

TITLE 26 - INTERNAL REVENUE CODE
Subtitle [redacted]
CHAPTER [redacted]

-HEAD-
Sec. [redacted]. Definitions

-STATUTE-
([redacted]) [redacted]
For purposes of this chapter, the term "T" includes includes Edsel,
Mustang, or Thunderbird.


If Congress had given MEANING to T, they would have said, "T
means thus and such..."

19. Are you now going to argue that the DEFINITION of a term is NOT the
MEANING of a term?

20. Are you now going to argue that the DEFINITION that Congress put in a
DEFINITION statute is NOT the meaning of the term Congress has defined?

21. Are you now going to argue that when Congress words a DEFINITION
statute
in this format: {For purposes of this chapter, the term "T" includes
includes Edsel, Mustang, or Thunderbird.}, Congress does NOT MEAN that
term
"T" touches Edsels, Mustangs, or Thunderbirds?

22. Are these your words: {Ok, therefore your hypothetical ONLY INCLUDES
A,
B, and C. As used in Title 26 and pursuant to 7701(c), nothing else is
included.}?

23. When A = Edsel, B = Mustang, and C = Thunderbird, is this a proper
conversion of your words: {Ok, therefore your hypothetical ONLY INCLUDES
Edsel, Mustang, and Thunderbird. As used in Title 26 and pursuant to
7701(c), nothing else is included.}?

For example, T = Car.

car n. 1. An automobile. 2. A vehicle, such as a streetcar, that runs on
rails: a railroad car. 3. A boxlike enclosure for passengers and freight
on
a conveyance: an elevator car. 4. The part of a balloon or airship that
carries people and cargo. 5. Archaic. A chariot, carriage, or cart.

Car means all chevys.

24. Does car also mean all street cars that run on rails?

25. Does car also mean all elevator cabins?


For example, T = Car.
Car means all chevys.
For purposes of this
section, the term car includes Mustangs and Thunderbirds.

Now Congress has DEFINED "car" in that particular section as Chevys,
Mustangs, and Thuderbirds.

28 Are you using the dictionary definition of the meaning of Car when you
state: {T = Car} in your example?
(Yes, I know you are because of what you have said prior, so humor me and
nail it down with a specific answer to this specific question.)

29. Did Congress define car in this format: {For the purposes of this
section, the term car means the common dictionary meaning}?

30. Did Congress define car in this format: {For the purposes of this
section, the term car means any passenger automobile}?

31. Did Congress define car as all Chevys or did Daniel Webster?


The following 8 questions assume you will answered question 28 with a
"yes":

32. When Congress acts upon "cars" in that particular section, does that
section act upon Novas?
33. When Congress acts upon "cars" in that particular section, does that
section act upon Camaros?
34. When Congress acts upon "cars" in that particular section, does that
section act upon Corvettes?

35. When Congress acts upon "cars" in that particular section, does that
section act upon Novas, Camaros, and Corvettes because they are within the
dictionary definition of "Car"?

36. When Congress acts upon "cars" in that particular section, does that
section act upon Edsels?
37. When Congress acts upon "cars" in that particular section, does that
section act upon Mustangs?
38. When Congress acts upon "cars" in that particular section, does that
section act upon Thunderbirds?

39. WHY WOULD CONGRESS NEED TO INCLUDE MUSTANGS AND THUNDERBIRDS IN A
SECTION IN THE MANNER OF YOUR EXAMPLE SINCE SUCH OBJECTS ARE ALREADY
WITHIN
THE DICTIONARY DEFINITION?

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25. What is the criteria for inclusion (or non inclusion) of object D,
(or
E, or F) when the definition statute uses this format: {For purposes of
this
chapter, the term "T" includes A, B, or C}?

Only those things following "includes" is included.



26. What is the criteria for inclusion (or non inclusion) of object
Ford
Taurus, (or Ford Crown Victoria , or Chevy Camaro ) when the definition
statute uses this format: {For purposes of this chapter, the term "T"
includes Edsel, Mustang, or Thunderbird}?

Asked and answered.

40. Are these your words: {Only those things following "includes" is
included.}?

41. Per your statement, is it true that since Edsel, Mustang, or
Thunderbird
are {only those things following "includes"} then ONLY an Edsel, Mustang,
or
Thunderbird, are included?

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9. What is the meaning of T when it is defined in this format {For the
purposes of this chapter, the term "T" includes A, B, or C}?

Sorry, but you have failed to provide enough information. However, if
"T" is in the dictionary, that would be its meaning.

I have provided you EXACTLY the same amount of information in the same
format as that provided in several definition sections of Title 26.

42. When a term is defined as a group of objects, wouldn't that grouping
be
a statutory grouping?

43. Isn't a statutory grouping of objects a statutorily defined Set or
Class
of objects?

class n. 1. A set, collection, group, or configuration containing members
regarded as having certain attributes or traits in common; a kind or
category. 2. A division based on quality, rank, or grade, as: a. A grade
of
mail: a package sent third class. b. A quality of accommodation on public
transport: tourist class. 3.a. A social stratum whose members share
certain
economic, social, or cultural characteristics: the lower-income classes.

class tr.v. classed, class·ing, class·es. To arrange, group, or rate
according to qualities or characteristics; assign to a class; classify.

set n. 1. A group of things of the same kind that belong together and are
so
used: a chess set. 8. Mathematics. A collection of distinct elements
having
specific common properties: a set of positive integers.

44. When T is defined in this format, {For the purposes of this chapter,
the
term "T" includes A, B, or C}, isn't Congress defining a Set or Class of
objects?

45. When T is defined in this format, {For the purposes of this chapter,
the
term "T" includes Edsel, Mustang, or Thunderbird}, isn't Congress defining
a
Set or Class of objects that are all Ford automobiles?





.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: 26 USC 7701(c)
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  • Re: 26 USC 7701(c)
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