Re: Grass Makes Better Ethanol than Corn Does

Dersu Uzala wrote:
In article <oqalo3dnbk7kp748fjansl6l51qpiv8aq0@xxxxxxx>, bbrock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx says...
On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 23:45:51 -0600, none@xxxxxxx (Dersu Uzala) wrote:

In article <s9sio3hghsj4k7g2jcbc9u2mdnpd0juejk@xxxxxxx>,
bbrock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
says...
<http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=grass-makes-better-ethanol-than-corn>

Farmers in Nebraska and the Dakotas brought the U.S. closer to
becoming a biofuel economy, planting huge tracts of land for the first
time with switchgrass—a native North American perennial grass (Panicum
virgatum) that often grows on the borders of cropland naturally—and
proving that it can deliver more than five times more energy than it
takes to grow it.

Like the Gnomes of South Park, they are missing "phase two". Cellulose to alcohol hasen't been done effectively, yet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underpants_Gnomes#The_Gnomes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXZardWyiOo
You didn't read the article that I posted did you? I guess the DOE
didn't read wikipedia huh?

*** you. I read it. I think I read it better than you.

from the article YOU cited:
"It's a prediction because right now there are no biorefineries built that handle cellulosic material" like that which switchgrass provides, Vogel notes."

"a prediction"
----------------------
from other sources:
GM eyes breakthrough in cellulosic ethanol
Sun Jan 13, 2008 12:34pm EST DETROIT (Reuters) - General Motors Corp said on Sunday it has bought a stake in start-up biofuel company Coskata Inc. which has developed a commercially viable process to bring cellulose-based ethanol to the market in 2011."

"Breakthrough".It is 2008 today. Hopefuly, in three years, it will work.
--------------------------
Scientists pursuing cellulosic ethanol: DOE
Mon Jan 14, 2008 6:01pm EST "...The key to making cellulosic ethanol work is finding tiny enzymes that can break feed stocks like orange rinds and solid waste down into fuel...."

note use of word "finding". I know they have them now, but they aren't being used commercially for fuel production.
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POET sees corn waste as ethanol feedstock
Mon Jan 14, 2008 6:10pm EST By Timothy Gardner
NEW YORK (Reuters) ...Cellulosic is a next-generation ethanol that uses microbes and other techniques to make fuel from the woody bits -- or cellulose -- of nonfood crops such as switchgrass and poplar trees. The fuel, which is not yet made commercially..."

"Not made comercially","next-generation", get my drift yet?
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Amber Waves of Gas?: Gasoline Alternative May Be Found in Prairie Grass
Diverse grassland species could become a "carbon-negative" source of bioenergy
By Nikhil Swaminathan News - December 7, 2006 Scientific American
"Bruce Dale, a biomass conservation researcher at Michigan State University, believes that although Tilman "provides an interesting perspective on the use of degraded lands," he makes a critical "apples-to-oranges comparison": pitting the production of ethanol from corn, an actual working industry, to ethanol production from grasses--currently hypothetical, due to economic constraints"
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So, what is your beef with me writing "Cellulose to alcohol hasen't been done effectively, yet."? Why would you insult me by claiming I didn't read the article you cited?

Cellulosic ethanol is still lab scale, and uneconomical, but with great potential. At current economic conditions, the prediction is $1/gallon within 10 years, but the reality rarely matches these forecasts ("electricity too cheap to meter" comes to mind).

In the mean time, food prices skyrocket because food material is diverted from the market into ethanol, with a small return on energy investment.

Dan
.