Re: Much of US favors Bush impeachment: poll

On Mon, 09 Jul 2007 03:30:36 GMT, "Jeff McCann"
<NoSpam@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:


"Robert Sturgeon" <rsturge@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:tg139398j7tpqpvjb232pli13bqgur1620@xxxxxxxxxx
On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 21:23:13 GMT, "Jeff McCann"
<NoSpam@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:


"Robert Sturgeon" <rsturge@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 07:42:58 -0700, Winston_Smith
<bogus@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

(snips)

It would be interesting to see statistics on how gun owners divide up
politically. Anybody have any data?

I did some web searching on the question. Apparently Gallup
did a poll which indicated that Republicans/rightists are
much more likely to own guns than Democrats/leftists. I
can't find the actual poll results -- only in-passing
references to the poll.

All I have is anecdotal information. The Democrats I know
don't tend to have guns. The ones who do don't tend to have
as many. Their guns tend to be specialized for hunting or
target shooting -- not for "social" purposes. You don't
want to be a duck, or a clay pigeon, around those people,
but they aren't going to do well in a civil war. There are,
of course, plenty of exceptions: non-gun owning
Republicans/rightists and heavily armed Democrats/leftists.
As a wild-assed guess, I'd say at least 2/3 of those on the
right are "armed and dangerous," whereas less than 1/3 on
the left are. I could be wrong, but I don't think so.

Anecdotally, several of my liberal friends have sought my assistance
recently in obtaining firearms suitable for resistance to out of control
government authority. Many see that all the tools necessary for an
authoritarian overthrow of the Constitution have recently been put into
place.

They are (partially) right. It's getting worse. But the
trend sure isn't recent, since the Constitution has ben
undergoing a slow steady process of overthrow since the 30s.
Is Bush II ignoring the Constitution? Yes, he is. So did
FDR, and I don't guess your "liberal" friends give a half a
damn about any of his outrages, or those of his "liberal"
successors.

I don't imagine they do. But then, FDR isn't much of a threat these days,
is he?

No, but his programs, most of which are still in effect,
are.

My impression is that they aren't fulminating about the politics of two or
three generations past, and are focused instead on the immediate problem of
an administration that feels unconstrained by the law or the Constitution,
and unaccountable to the people or the other two branches of government,and
what that may mean for them, personally.

They should be fulminating about all that. It's about time
they figured out that excessive governmental power is a
Really Bad Thing. Better late than never.

The precedents, infrastructure and practices created by the Bush
administration, such as the use of torture, secret detention camps,
warrantless domestic spying, assertions of unlimited executive power, and
God knows what else, are all now in place and look to many like nothing so
much as a comprehensive toolkit designed mainly for dismantling the Republic
and replacing it with something far more sinister.

I'm willing to give Bush II the minimum benefit of the doubt
-- that he has done all that to fight the War on Terrorism.
But either way, it is that toolkit. What toolkit did FDR
use to lock up U.S. citizens of Japanese ancestry? The
toolkit s always there, because it is based on (most)
people's willingness to surrender their rights to achieve
more security -- even though that security is illusory.
Just look at the sheep in the airports.

People are beginning to
wake up to these possibilities, and are starting to realize just how far
down a very dangerous road Bush has taken us.

Again -- it's been a long road. Bush II didn't start the
journey. He's just the latest in a long line of presidents
who have engaged in an ever growing assault on individual
rights. The reason your friends are all of a sudden worried
is that rights THEY care about are being attacked. When it
was other rights, rights they didn't care about, they went
right along with the process. In fact, they were GLAD those
rights were being infringed.

This includes some of Bush's staunchest former supporters, as well as those
on the other side. Perhaps they awake in a cold sweat, imaging Hillary
exercising the powers Bush has arrogated to himself?

I'm sure you're right about that. And when Hillary is
elected, your friends will relax, because, after all,
Hillary wouldn't do all those terrible things Bush II might
do. They'll forget all about the dangers excessive
government power holds for them. They'll look forward to
having Hillary extend government power even more, because it
will be for purposes they support.

--
Robert Sturgeon
Alcohol, Tobacco & Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency.
http://www.vistech.net/users/rsturge/
.

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