Re: Dealling with a Bad Amnesty for Illegals
- From: CanopyCo <Junk74020@xxxxxxx>
- Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2007 09:28:02 -0700
On Jun 2, 9:58 pm, Usenet2...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <Usenet2...@THE-DOMAIN-
IN.SIG> wrote:
In article <1180761626.625526.80...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
Junk74...@xxxxxxx says...
Mexicans come here and do work for so cheep a wage that Americans
can't compete.
How would you feel about an American offering to do a job for
such a low wage that you wouldn't be able to compete?
No problem so long as they are asking a wage that can be lived on in
the area that they do the work.
I do have a problem with people working for so low a wage that they
cannot turn a profit and therefore go out of business, taking me down
with them due to me not getting any work.
And that happens form time to time due to some people getting
desperate.
That is how many companies kept in business that routinely killed
there employees due to unsafe working conditions.
Without the unions in those areas, we would still have rampant unsafe
working conditions as well as wages so low that we can't even pay
rent.
I have personally met Americans who were upset at the idea of a
fellow American working really hard, long hours, etc. Because
they were afraid of looking bad (weak, lazy) in comparison. And
that included the fear that the hard worker might end up being
more successful, financially.
Key word in your statement are "more successful, financially.".
I don't give a hoot about the Jones's down the street.
If they want to work themselves to death just so that they can afford
a bas boat, then more power to them.
All I am saying is that a person (alone) should be able to work a 40
hour week and that should earn enough pay to pay for the following;
A kitchenette apartment in the area where the work is done.
Healthy food (not just beans and rice but some vegetables and fruit,
as well as some meat. This does not have to be stake. It can be ground
turkey or chicken breasts).
Cheep new clothing purchased as fast as the job destroys them in
addition to 3 sets of similar priced clothing just for going to town.
Transportation to the job and the store (this can be anything form a
bus to a 10 year old car as well as tag, maintenance and minimum
insurance on it).
Health care sufficient to keep the person healthy enough to do the
work.
Notice anything that a slave wasn't commonly given back in the
plantation days?
Back then you had to pay good money to replace a slave.
Now days, an employee can be replaced free, so why provide him with
the ability to survive?
Mexicans live in a bunch illegally in a house / apartment until they
get caught then rent another one under one of the others name from the
group.
I don't feel entitled to live in a McMansion if I cannot afford
it.
Do you feel entitled to live in a kitchenette apartment alone paid for
by your 40 hour a week job?
The Mexicans live 20 head to that apartment for around 6 months,
moving as soon as they are found out to another apartment under the
name of one of the other 20 head in the group.
Then they go home to Mexico and live 6 years well on what they earned.
Do you think that is how you should live?
Then once they earn enough money they go back home to there familles
in Mexico and live well on there saved money.
Lots of Mexicans apparently stay in the US permanently.
Not doing job "that no American will do".
They are getting paid enough to live here and therefore are not the
subject at hand.
My only problem with them is did they come here legally?
Yes? No problem.
No? I always have problems with criminals (illegal activities =
criminal).
Also, I have heard of legal, legit Indians spending a few years
working on a visa in the US, and then going back to India to reap
the rewards of their experience, learning, etc. Do you have a
problem with that?
You said that they came here legally.
I also expect that they are paying there entire way themselves without
US government assistance.
After all, why should my tax money be used to pay for some other
countries education when I can't get them to pay for mine?
They are also working for the standard pay in the area.
After all, they can't do the moving game and still stay in town to go
to school.
Based on the above criteria, I have no problem.
What if an American worked overseas for some time, and then came
back to the US, with competitive advantages from the experience?
Would you begrudge them?
What other countries do is none of my concern so long as they do not
try to effect what goes on inside the US.
And anyone entering the country legally and following the standard
housing rules here is also not a problem
It's those that break the law in order to live on pay lower then a law
abiding person can live on that I have a problem with.
We can't go back to Mexico to rase our familles, and the companies
will not pay enough for us to make a living here.
It is like strike busters with union workers.
If it were not for the strike busters, the union workers could force
the company to pay enough for the workers to live on.
But with the company able to hire workers that will work for less then
it costs to do the job just to keep money coming in the company is no
longer forced to pay a fair wage and the strikers starve.
What do you mean by, "will work for less than it costs to do the
job"? A rational worker will require payment that is enough to
cover his/her overhead (rent, food, transportation to get to
work, etc.) Thus, a sustainable situation means that the
employer must pay at least that much.
Key words "rational worker".
A desperate person will work for what ever he can get just to survive
one more day while trying to figure a way out of his jam.
So long as a company has a steady stream of said desperate workers
there is no reason to pay more then what they require.
After all, once a worker dies it costs nothing to hire another one to
replace him.
And this is exactly what is going on in many places with the Mexicans.
They work for so low a pay that they cannot pay rent or
transportation.
They do this by grouping up in cheep houses or apartments and car
pool.
Then once they have done this for a few months they go home to Mexico
and live for years on that pay.
Meanwhile, another Mexican comes north to take his place.
All the while, Americans are put out of work due to not being able to
live on the same pay and still live here full time.
Like with your work.
No, you definitely aren't talking my work.
If your Mexican competition charged only $5 an hour to do your work,
you could not compete.
That right there is why you aren't talking about my work. I
don't compete with illegal immigrant farm labourers or factory
workers. Because I don't pick lettuce, except in my own garden.
And I don't sew garments, except very minor repairs to my own.
I took the effort and responsibility to set up a situation
involving technical skillz, knowledge of a certain industry, and
so forth. I have plenty of competitors, of many nationalities
and locations. A very few might be illegal immigrants. But
there is no way for some barely-literate, dirt-poor Mexican
sneaking across the Texas border to compete with me.
Even when I was young and doing blue-collar jobs, it was above
that level.
1. So it is ok sense it does not effect you?
2. Just because they are Mexicans does not mean that they do not have
skills.
Many are working in construction as skilled labor / electricians /
plumbers / heavy equipment operators.
When you were doing blue collar work, you did not have skills
sufficient to keep you above today's Mexican illegal worker.
Also, if one had the skills that you use today and could compete with
you at the $5 an hour price by doing the illegal actives I have
mentioned, you would consider it ok?
And a good wage in Mexico is $20 (I can't remember if it is a week or
month, but either way they can save up a months wage in a few days).
So, after a while they just go home to there familles and live well
without working at all once they get home.
Have you considered moving to Mexico? I hear there are plenty of
gringos there.
Sure have.
I can't get legal statues there without a steady income after I move
there.
They don't have stupid immigration laws like the US has.
If you don't have lots of money coming in every month then you will be
competing with Mexicans for jobs so they don't want you unless you
have something special to offer.
Retired people have a steady income every month not dependent on them
working.
That is why they can move there.
I likely will retire there myself, if not in Taiwan.
As to the deportation thing, I think that any time they are caught
without legal papers they should immediately be deported. (see period)
Really? So you are in favour of law requiring everyone to carry
their official gubmint ID at all times? Papers? May I see your
papers, please?
Sure, here are my drivers license (the government ID I am required to
carry at all times and furnish at the request of the LEO. It is gotten
with a birth certificate showing nation of origin).
As to in favor of, it is the way it is, so why not use it to protect
us instead of just to harass us?
And I am absolutely in favor of immigrants being required to carry
there passport just like I have to do in there country.
Do you understand that the only way for that to work with the
illegal immigrants would include YOU being required to carry such
ID, as well? And to present it on demand?
Like that is not the case now.
Just try not showing your drivers license / ID at LEO request and see
what happens.
And what if someone doesn't have that ID? How do you know which
country they "belong" to? Can you really tell the difference
between a Salvadoran, and a Honduran? Especially if s/he isn't
cooperating? And perhaps you would grab any white person with a
North American accent - but no papers - and boot their arse up to
Canada, eh?
They have papers at home or they are illegal.
I have yet to meet a American citizen that does not have his proof of
citizenship papers at home or somewhere he has access to them.
As to where to boot the illegal immigrant, as far as I care if they do
not cooperate about where they are from kick them across the Mexico
border and let them figure it out.
I bet they start talking then.
They are here illegally.
If we wanted them here, it would not be so hard for them to come here
legally, so send them home.
Is that what you think the Native Americans should have done in
the early 1600s?
You tell me, sense they did not, how did it work out for them?
You think that we should not learn from the mistakes of others?
By the way, I live in Oklahoma.
Hell yes I think Great great great great grampa should have shot your
white ass. :-D
I also think that we should press for Mexico to jail those that we
catch here illegally.
Why? How is that in the Mexican gubmint's best interest? They
have a safety valve for many of their poor people to leave,
instead of causing trouble. They have large amounts of dollars
being sent back, which helps their economy. Why should they see
a problem?
Exactly.
We should change that the same way we change things in other countries
all the time.
It was not in the best interest of Mexico to make drugs and
prostitution illegal for tourists, but the US made them do it anyway.
Use the same leverage to do this.
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