Re: One in 10 Indigenous men raped, survey

zadock@xxxxxxxxxx wrote:
On Mon, 22 May 2006 01:28:24 GMT, myal <no.spam@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote
in <Ys8cg.8451$S7.6950@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> :

|>zadock@xxxxxxxxxx wrote:
|>> On Sun, 21 May 2006 04:58:27 GMT, myal <no.spam@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote
|>> in <TrSbg.7749$S7.2895@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> :
|>> |>> |>zadoc@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
|>> |>> Saturday, 20 May 2006, 11:54:27 AEST
|>> |>> One in 10 Indigenous men raped, survey
|>> |>> |>> |>> A survey of Indigenous men shows 10 per cent had been raped and a
|>> |>> third of them have been touched against their will.
|>> |>> |>> |>> The Queensland University of Technology has spent 18 months
|>> |>> interviewing more than 300 men in remote and urban parts of
|>> |>> Queensland and the Northern Territory.
|>> |>> |>> |>> Researcher Mick Adams says the rates of abuse are 10 times higher
|>> |>> than in the rest of the population.
|>> |>> |>> |>> "What we found is that a lot of men had said they had either been
|>> |>> interfered with in different sort of forms and 80 per cent of the
|>> |>> men had not told anybody up until we did the interview," he said.
|>> |>> |>> |>> Mr Adams says it is likely the sexual violence is contributing to
|>> |>> high suicide rates among Indigenous men. |>> |>> |>> |>> http://www.abc.net.au/message/news/stories/ms_news_1643364.htm
|>> |>> zadoc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
|>> |>
|>> |>ernie , you have an unusual intrest in pedophilic behaviours ... I |>> |>wonder why ??

Having been unjustly accused of same with no evidence I naturally
wonder about the motive of Ray Keller in starting this baseless
rumour. If someone accused you of criminal behaviour wouldn't
you wonder why?

No , weridos do that , I am not a psycholigist , I leave the musings over why to them .

|>> |>> I have been accused of pedophila by Keller, yet I dislike kids.
|>> Isn't that reason enough?
|>
|>It actualy fits the profile .... a lot of gays are publicly anti gay , |>until they "come out" .....

Are you accusing me of being gay, Myal? My wife [female] will be
disappointed.

Sounds like an admission to me ... My regards and condolances to your wife

|>
|>professing to dislike kids means nothing .

Professing to like kids means nothing either.
Some people have kids so they can abuse or kill them.
|>
|>
|>> |>
|>> |>according to abc radio last year , 1/2 of all kids surveyed who went on |>> |>sleep overs were sexualy molested .
|>> |>> I am a regular listener to the ABC but didn't hear of it. Can
|>> you provide some proof? Australian law is pretty tough on
|>> pedophilia and I have trouble believing that anything like 50% of
|>> "sleepovers" result in paedophilia...unless you heard a claim on
|>> "JJJ" or something
|>> |>
|>late night am , an interview with a university guy who specialises in |>research into these things . I spend a lot of late nights on death watch |>, literaly .

Depends on his credibility, and in any case ABC will have a
record of the interview. Find it for us.

"find it for us"?? tone ernie of *** , tone ,

now Im all offended ,and not likely to do anything for you .



|>> Didn't hear the report, can you track it down?
|>> |>
|>> |>Curious , before settlement , molesting a child was punishable by death .
|>> |>> Sounds like a great idea.
|>
|>Im glad to see you supporting tribal law .
|>
|>> |>
|>> |>After the great progress of settlemnt we got things likedrugs , alcohol |>> |>, sexual abuse , theft and other diseases of the civilised world .

Aboriginals never had any alcohol, psychedelic mushrooms,
marijuana, etc? Almost every culture the world does. Without
refrigeration, it is difficult to store any fruit juice without
alcohol production.

|>> |>> When I first came to Australia many Aboriginals were gainfully
|>> employeed.

|>Define your concept of many .

I have no precise definition. Many worked on stations.

Oh yes , where they worked on the stations for their food , and if they were special good , maybe some money too ....

|>
|>
|>More than 10 ? the majority of Aboriginals Australia wide ?
Would be considerably more than ten. Most people like to eat and
it is easier to work for rations than to forage in the bush.
|>
|>were you here pre 66 ?

|> The land rights debate and almost unlimited social
|>> services seems to have ended this. |>
|>Not only for Aboriginals , when I first went to school , many Non |>Aboriginals were gainfully employed , but the dole and the parenting |>payment ended this , and now the baby bonus is doing heaps more damage ...

Yes, I can believe this.
|>
|> Assume you have heard of
|>> remote communities paying exorbitant fees to have private pilots
|>> fly in grog. As you have pointed out, WW2 probably didn't help.
|>> |>
|>Wanna say if the booze runners flying the planes were Aboriginal or not |>? Never even heard of Aboriginal who was a qualified pilot.


I know some , and other learning . Their standards wouldnt alow them to stoop so low , wanna say out loud who was doing the running ernie ?


|>just curious about what people would be so low

As you know, or should know, there is no lower limit to human
depravity.

As you are proving slowly ...

|>
|>> I must say that I don't agree with any sort of concept of
|>> traditional or tribal law. |>
|>You just did , back up the page some.

Nope. One law should apply to all Australians. I don't agree
with the tribal law of people being speared in the leg as
punishment, or there death punishment by "pointing the bone".

sure sure .. and rich folk get the same justice as poor folk , money has NO influence on the judical system , all lawyers are the same skill and calibre .....

Our way is just better , thats all , I can understand you not wanting to admit it tho .


|>
|>THis leads me to ask you a question ...
|>
|>do you *KNOW* tribal lore ?

Very little and care less.

I see , you have such a broad knowledge base to be mouthing off about it too.


No one should be exempt from the law
of Australia. You may remember where the construction of a
bridge from the mainland to an island was blocked by some "secret
woman's business" which was later proven to be false.

and john howard was elected because of the promise of "read my lips , no gst "

that was later proved a lie , as was SO many other election promises ...

the belief in the womens business was true ,

as is the woggle a the old brewry site in WA

the belief was a fairdinkum belief .

the respet showed for that is typical tho of what has happened since settlement .


The recent cartoon about "secret men's business" was probably
based on this case.

have you beeninitiated yourself , have you

|>spent the time to what was shared with the anthropoligists etc anyway ?

No, and not anthropologists anyway. Often they end up being
fooled. Ever read the book by the famous Margaret Mead _Coming
of Age in Samoa_? She was lied to by Samoan children, believed
the lies, published them. Book was famous for years, but
eventually completed discredited.

You do realise samoa isnt here tho , dont you ?

attempt to defend your lack of knowledge about that wich you speak noted tho . As pathetic as it is , its still noted ...


|> Aboriginals are either citizens or
|>> they are not. |>
|>If you were here pre 6 , you will remember them being giventhe honour of |>now being citizens . and their being denied citizenship rights prior to |>this .

Yep.
|>
|> If they are citizens, then they should come under
|>> the same laws as any other Australian women. |>
|>they do , and did . it was this law that allowed the forced removals |>from their families and selling of them as domestics , and the forced |>roemoval of their kids to be sold again ....

A lot of kids are taken away of white parents who have abused
them. Nothing new about this.


White people abusing kids ?

true ?

you mean , it is fact , that there is nothing new aout whie people abusing kids ??

ernie , you know SO MUCH about child abuse ... its scary almost ...

how do you know this I wonder ?


There is difference tho , especialy when the kids are removed when there is no abuse happening , but because it is govt assimilation policy only .



Have even known of instances
where white parents gave up their children to the state at two or
three and let the taxpayers raise them until they were of working
age then reclaimed them.
|>
|>If only there wasnt one law for Aboriginals and another for the bastards |>who took their land over hey ?

Nope. Has happened through all human history. The Normans took
over the Saxons in England, descendents of both live under
English law. Read history for many other examples.

Ive heard child abusers are often themselves , victims of abuse , and repeat the behaviours , using your line of justification .



An American Indian can live on a reservation if he likes, but is
not exempt from the laws relating to sex, theft, and murder.

|>
|> Child marriage
|>> should be ended. |>
|>Specifics here , youre against arranged marrigaes , or youre against |>kids being molested ?

Yes to both.

Purely religious grounds for being against arranged marriages ?


|>
|>molesting an underage kids was a death sentence to the molester under |>tribal law , evenif it was a promised bride , she was not to be taken as |>wife until she was of age . Morals was big once .....

This ended when effective enforcement ended. Perhaps when people
ceased to fear dying after having the bone pointed at them and
the death chant sung?

Please educate yourself some , in your shire , you will have a facility called a public library .

use it , get the book "blood on the wattle" after the first 4 chapters , get back to me about why much things as this realy ended .


|>
|> Pedophilia should be ended. Wife beating and
|>> murder should be ended. The alcohol free communities should be
|>> encouraged. .....Those are my thoughts at least.
|>
|>I agree with this , ESPECIALY in non Aboriginal communities we are aware |>of our troubles and trying to cope ... everyone else is doing what |>exactly ? ... besides sticking their beaks intour business and saying |>how bad it is ... when they got the same trouble themselves .

Still no excuse for some behaviour. We don't have a perfect
society. We can't catch and punish all the wrongdoers.

only the ones the media decideds to make mileage out of ?

be honnest , if there was anincest or abuse problem among non aboriginal families ,its SO common as tobe not worth broadcasting .

add the us n them factor and its news . racist twats as you pop your uglyheads up all the sudden


|>been down Kings Cross after 10 lately ?
Not lately. Lived there when first came to Australia, though.
Only place open after 10 PM.
|>
|>Seen the starting stalls in Kalgoorlie ? Been through there, not sure what you are calling a "starting
stall" though.

hay street , next to the super brothel , the heritage listed tin shacks that hae a girly in knickers offering her body for sale out front of ....

|>
|>Seen the personals adds int he back of the paper ?
Not in the papers I read.

Of course not ...

|>
|>been clubbing anytime recent ?
Nope. Dislike crowds and noise, what the present generation
calls "music"!

You mean you preffer the realy young generation ?

|>
|>just curious .

Hope that have partly satisfied your curiosity.

Your honnesty is ... well the level of it is expected .

|>
|>> |>> Humans differ greatly, and cultures do as well. I don't find it
|>> difficult to believe that some groups react differently to
|>> alcohol than others.
|>
|>a 15 yo desert girl also differes physicaly and emotionaly from a 15 yr |>old highschool girl in town .

Yes, so what? All people differ. Have never seen two alike,
even identical twins.

you interject too often and too early , sit back reread it in context , youll get it eventualy

|>
|>can you , for someone who has never lived that life , get you rmind |>around that ?

I assume you mean that to read as "your mind". The answer
impossible to give. I can't imagine what it is like to be a
female, or a Chinese, or an American Black, or an Aboriginal...or
even a politician or used car salesman.

try it , go , widen out in your heart ( a christian thing ya know , hate to preach your own book at you but there ya go ) and what things are realy like ... maybe you will learn something so instead of just talking thru your hat , you will have something benificial to say

|>
|>I doubt it .

Believe it or not.
from you , , its more the or not than believing

|>
|>> |>
|>> |>the only difference between the cultures is that where the civilised |>> |>folk do it behind closed doors and dont speak of it , the locals do it |>> |>openly and dont hide it .

Crap. People even pay to watch. Ever been in Mexico?

You PAID to watch ???

thats sick


|>> |>> To quote from "The Australian" weekend Inquirer May 20-21 page 17
|>> "Cry of the Innocent", paragraphs two to four:
|>> |>> The picture has been the same down the years in much of the
|>> Western Desert, where child abuse is a rite of passage and girls
|>> are routinely violated before their 13th birthday. It is the
|>> same across remote Australia to this day, from Cape York to the
|>> Pilbara: In one Kimberely town earlier this year a baby was
|>> burned and tortured to death by parents.
|>> |>> "There were shocked meetings and community reform. The same week
|>> , a young mother left her one year old baby in a relative's care
|>> and came back to find the child had been raped. Or take another
|>> north Kimberley community and the tale of a four-year-old boy,
|>> repeatedly raped by a mature man, until he had lost control of
|>> his bodily functions. The young vicctim was taken to Perth for
|>> surgery, then returned to his community where he drifted, his
|>> parents nowhere to be found, until nine months later where he was
|>> savagely raped by a 12 year old assailiant.
|>> |>> These stories could be multiplied a hundredfold: mutilations,
|>> gang rapes, assaults on children. They are the nightmare
|>> underside of life in north and central Australia. And the
|>> siatuation is fast approaching brekdown, for these violent crimes
|>> are on the increase in places such as northeast Arnheim Land, the
|>> town camps of the centre and the desert communities south of
|>> Alice Springs. |>> |>> I'm sure that you can find a copy of the Weekend Australian and
|>> read these and other stories for yourself.
|>> |>> Had they happened in other cultures in Australia, am sure that
|>> you and others would have heard it far before now. |>> |>
|>> |>its realy only this that is the worry .
|>> |>> I have my doubts about this. "Sleepovers" and "missing parents"
|>> aren't common practices among one year old infants.
|>> |>
|>read your story and find where its common anywhere ....
Not between adults and infants.
|>
|>I missed it.

Whole thing is online, and most large libraries at least get the
Weekend Australian. Your local newsdealer will probably have an
unreturned copy.
|>
|>I have experience tho since I got foster kids with parents I never met |>dropping their kids off at my home to stay for a week or more .

You are a much more trusting person than I am.


that isnt hard to do .

|>
|>I have had parents I never met before want my kids to come sleep over |>their house because my boys had a crush ontheir girls . My boys were |>then 4 and 8 , their girls were 9 and 13 .

Sorry, don't have kids, don't understand it, wouldn't allow it
for any reason.


If Iknow the whole family , and who is going to be there att he time , I sometimes allow it , but onlyif I know that , otherwise no way , even then I worry about it .

|>THis is from upstanding families , pillars of the community , non |>Aboriginal kids too BTW

So what? A lot of upstanding corporation executives take drugs.
Why do you think the US is a major cocaine market? Average
street user usually cannot afford it.


I was contrasting it against your numerous artciles highlighting how awful life is for australian Aboriginals .....

seems life for Aboriginals is actualy so much better than for nonAboriginals , once youbegin being honnest about things .


Upstanding corporations heads also send their companies broke.
Ever here of Enron in California? Could name a few here, too.

------------------------------------------------
Gates of Eden: A Nation in Chains

Written by Chris Floyd Monday, 22 May 2006
Beneath the thunder of the mighty cataclysms unleashed by the
Bush Administration – the war crime in Iraq, the global torture
gulag, the epic corruption, the gutting of the Constitution, the
open embrace of presidential tyranny – a quieter degradation of
American society has continued apace. And this slow descent into
barbarism didn't begin with George W. Bush – although his illicit
regime certainly represents the apotheosis of the dark forces
driving the decay.

With the world's attention understandably diverted by the latest
scandals and shameless posturings of the Bush Faction – domestic
spying, bribes and hookers at the CIA, military units roaring
down to the border to scare unarmed poor people looking for work
– few noticed a small story that cast a harsh, penetrating light
on the corrosion of the national character.

Earlier this month, the International Centre for Prison Studies
at King's College London released its annual World Prison
Population List. And there, standing proudly at the head of the
line, towering far above all others, is that shining city on the
hill, the United States of America. But strangely enough, the
Bush gang and its many media sycophants failed to celebrate – or
even note – yet another instance where a triumphant America leads
the world. Where are the cheering hordes shouting "USA! USA!" at
the news that the land of the free imprisons more people than any
other country in the world – both in raw numbers and as a
percentage of its population?

Yes, the world's greatest democracy now has more than two million
of its citizens locked up in iron cages: an incarceration rate of
714 per 100,000 of the national population, the Centre reports.
The only countries within shouting distance are such bastions of
penological enlightenment as China (1.55 million prisoners, plus
some unsorted "administrative detainees"), Russia (a wimpy
763,000) and Brazil (330,000), whose exemplary prison management
has been on such prominent display this week.

MORE at: http://www.chris-floyd.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=662&Itemid=1

http://tinyurl.com/ogbmt
|>

|>
|>> The age of consent in most of Australia is mostly 16, with 18 in
|>> Queensland for sodomy.
|>> |>> See:
|>> http://www.avert.org/aofconsent.htm
|>> |>> Nowhere is it as low as 13, and I simply do not accept that
|>> "Tribal Law" should be superior to standard
|>> Australian Law.
|>
|>You probably havent been initiated and therefore dont *know* tribal lore |>, I suspect you rely on hearsay and misinformation as your information |>sources .

Not tribal, not interested, and state and federal laws should
override all tribal laws, IMHO.


They have been enforced to do so on pai of death for the slightest percieved infringement since settlement till the 50s inpopulate areas , and till the 70s in lesser populated areas .


|>You write with a white point of view

Probably because I am.:)


It shows , I take it you are a supremist ? or wont they have anything to do with you ?

Incidentally,
=================
More young black men have done prison time than military service
or earned college degree, study shows
CONTACT: Joel Schwarz joels@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 206-543-2580

Being jailed in federal or state prisons has become so common
today that more young black men in the United States have done
time than have served in the military or earned a college degree,
according to a new study.

The paper, appearing this week in the American Sociological
Review, estimates that 20 percent of all black men born from 1965
through 1969 had served time in prison by the time they reached
their early 30s. By comparison, less than 3 percent of white
males born in the same time period had been in prison.

Equally startling, the risks of prison incarceration rose steeply
with lower levels of education. Among blacks, 30.2 percent of
those who didn't attend college had gone to prison by 1999 and
58.9 percent of black high school dropouts born from 1965 through
1969 had served time in state or federal prison by their early
30s. MORE at:
http://www.uwnews.org/article.asp?articleID=4393
|>>

Any hypothesis on why this should be so?


nope , should I ?

.