Re: BRAZIL'S ALCOHOL-POWERED CAR

North wrote: 
Stuart Grey <stuart.grey@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:fsidnbqdJvScTEbeRVn-jA@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

North wrote:

Stuart Grey <stuart.grey@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:5KOdnaV3LqkNM0beRVn-pA@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx


§§§ Raven §§§ wrote:


North wrote:


From Mother Earth News: Issue #66 - November/December 1980 

ANd now in 2006 we know that it would take more oil to
grow enough corn to service all our automobile fuel needs
than we are currently using in gasolene......


Yes... and no. Of course, you don't need to use oil or alcohol to fire
the still. You can use coal, sugar cane husks or anything else that
burns. The idea is to make a liquid fuel that can be used in cars. You
can use low entropy fuels to do that.

The Brazilians use the sugar cane husks as fuel for their stills.

You get about 150 gallons (of gasoline equivelent) per acre using the
Brazilian method. To replace the US gasoline supply would require about
1/3 of the US land area be dedicated to alcohol farms. The cost would be
incredible; consider that at current prices of gasoline is around
$2.30/gal, then you're talking about a profit much lower than $345/acre.
I can grow a lot of things for better money than that - Sugar, for
example! And this land has to have a lot of water available, and be of a
southern latitude. Alaska and the Western US is not an option.



Look, the idea is 'not' to 'replace' gasoline with alcohol, but to give 

me

the 'option' or ' choice' to burn it. 

Look, if it doesn't make sense on the large scale, it doesn't make sense
on the small scale.

When you go to costco and find the 50 lb bags of sugar cheap enough for
you to refine into alcohol that is CHEAPER than gasoline, then it's time
to consider small scale production. Until then, it's just stupid.


Why would I want to make my own alcohol ?

I donno. I guess I mistook you for someone who wasn't looking for a nanny state. OF course you wouldn't want to make your own fuel, you'd want the government to force someone else to do it for you. "You" in the context I used it means "the self reliant man who is looking for a cheaper fuel option".

Know what I was told when I myself
considered installing an alcohol pump at the gas station that I own ? I was
told by my gasoline supplier that if they didn't sell it, I couldn't sell
it.


Contracts are a choice. No one is stopping you from selling alcohol fuel.

IOWs I was not allowed to sell a 'competing' fuel. 

Yep.

Buying the alcohol
was not the problem and no It would have not costed me 10 bucks a gallon. No
it would have not been cheaper then gasoline, but not 10 bucks a gallon, get
real !!

Since the utility in the fuel is in automobile milage, why would any rational person pay more for the same utility?

My 1980 datsun truck is dual fuel. I can run run either gasoline or 

alcohol.

BFD. My Ford Ranger can run on gasoline or alcohol, too. The difference
between us is that this fact doesn't lead me to irrational conclusions.



No dumbass, the difference is we have to start somewhere to get off our
addiction to oil. What are you going to do when the entire ME errupts into
an all out war, and the U.S. is totally cut off from arab oil ? I bet you
will be the first to bitch about how we knew this was coming and how we did
nothing to further develope differnt techologys.

As I pointed out, no rational person thinks alcohol was a viable replacement for gasoline. You do, but no intelligent person. In another thread, I pointed out that such a program would require 1/3 of the land area of the United States to meet present day consuption. You can't grow sugar in Alaska because it's too far north and you can't grow it in the west because it's too dry. That leaves the south east.

And the economic impact of doing so would be huge: basically, you're dictating to the farmer that he is going to make about $300/acre. For some crops, that's a good replacement. But not all crops.

So, who's the dumbass? The only solution that would work would be nuclear power.

As it stands now, there's no 'alcohol' pump at the fueling station. I'd 

like

that choice. The idea is to reduce demand on gasoline, thus 'conserving'
supplys.


You'd like that choice? Sorry, but to few people are willing to pay
$10/gal for alcohol, when gas is still $2.30/gal. You eco-socialist



I'm NOT an eco-socialist. I'm simply not going to sit back and continue to
be a slave to big oil. If you wish to keep taking it up the ass from the oil
mafia, then by all means keep taking it up the ass.

Well, you're some sort of socialist wackjob, demanding that people do stupid things that are not in their interest but are in yours. And your sexual perversion is noted.

Nuclear or coal are our only two rational alternatives at this time. Solar, alcohol fuel, bio diesel may work on an rugged individualist's basis, but not for the entire nation.


would love to dictate to the companies that they had to give you that
"choice", but that's just not freedom or liberty.


The fueling station of the future will offer : Gasoline, Alcohol, 

Gas-o-hal,

diesel, pure bio-diesel, and Hydrogen. 

Not likely. Too expensive to offer so many alternatives. There is cost
savings in standardization. That's why so many people like you use
Microsoft Windows.



Bull***, I actually own a gas station, I actually know what the costs would
be to adding a tank and a pump. I sell five (three grades of gasoline,
diesel and kerosene) fuels now. Adding two more would be no big deal.
However, because Ammoco doesn't make it, I'm not allowed to sell it
according to my gas contract.

Well, good for you. I'm a systems engineer, and I am looking at the entire system on a national level and not just your stupid little gas station and your damned pump.

And don't bitch to me that you don't like your contract. You're the moron who signed it, not me. Anything is negotiable, if you don't like it, see how much it will cost you to change it or negotiate one with some other company.

Give the consumer the choice. Give the consumer more fuel options. This 

will

reduce over all demand on crude for gasoline, and thats the whole idea.

It's not about choice, it's about supply and demand.


LOL, How many things being sold now have I heard that one about....... 

Lord only knows what you meant by that.

.

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