Re: Yup the US is now the USSR

On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 01:59:37 +0000, Winston Smith
<bogus@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

>On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 10:47:47 -0800, Robert Sturgeon
><rsturge@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 23:13:14 -0700, Winston Smith
>><bogus@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 21:39:20 GMT, Gunner Asch <gunner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>
>>>>Falling fuel prices?
>>>It's fallen to two times what it was from a high of three times what
>>>it was. NeoCon economics calls that a good thing. Thank you George.
>>
>>Isn't it a Good Thing that fuel prices are quite a bit lower
>>than they were?
>
>Of course they are also quite a bit higher than they were - recently.
>
>> As for them being higher than they were a
>>few years ago - of course they are. We have long term
>>inflation caused by long term growth in the money supply
>>that is greater than the output of the economy.
>
>Not 100% in a couple years.
>
>>We have had
>>this since the 1930s. Most of us seem to actually WANT this
>>condition, as most of us support fiat money and support
>>ongoing modest inflation of the money supply. Party doesn't
>>matter - both the Republicans and the Democrats agree on
>>this state of affairs.
>>
>>So what's your point, anyway?
>
>Only that it's bogus to claim a reduction from a high as progress when
>the current level is in fact a super high relative to only a couple
>years ago. The only ones making out from that are the oil companies.

Well, a lot of people profit from higher energy prices. I
guess it depends on your definition of an "oil company." Do
the owners of oil wells, gas wells, coal mines, etc. count?
Do the people who make and sell alternative energy systems
count? How about the people who make and install energy
conservation systems?

>The problem is what this does to the economy. Everything a family
>spends on higher energy costs comes out of something else in the
>family budget. While they have less to spend, items in the store have
>to cost more to cover production and distribution energy costs.

That isn't necessarily the case - at least not immediately.
Take agriculture (please!). My energy costs - and related
costs such as fertilizer made from natural gas, are
skyrocketing. But are the prices I receive also
skyrocketing? No, they are not. I get to absorb the
difference. Of course, eventually this state of affairs
will reduce production, as farmers reduce their inputs
because they simply can't afford to continue with them.
Then, as production declines, buyers will bid up prices on
the remaining production - AFTER many farmers have gone out
of business. So yes, prices will increase, but not as some
sort of automatic process. We can't just demand more money
merely because our costs have increased. OK, we CAN demand
more money, but we won't get it. I have NEVER had a cotton
buyer say, "Is this price high enough for you to come out on
the deal?" The real world just doesn't work like that.

>In the end we will probably borrow it and go deeper in debt to foreign
>lenders. Hardly a conservative monetary plan IMHO. There is
>something else we had in the 30s. That possibility scares me.

Oh, you mean the fascism of the FDR years? Uh, you might
want to read up on the news about Bush II's illegal
communications snooping.

--
Robert Sturgeon
Summum ius summa inuria.
http://www.vistech.net/users/rsturge/
.

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