Re: OT - Is torture moral?

In misc.survivalism, Stuart Grey <stuart.grey@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> EskWIRED@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
> > In misc.survivalism, Stuart Grey <stuart.grey@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>I want to know why.
> >
> >
> > By saying torture is justified in this situation, you are saying that the
> > ends (saving ten people) justify the means (torturing one person).

> That's an emotionally charged statement, isn't it?

Whether or not is is "emotionally charged", it accurately summarizes your
deeply held moral beliefs.




Often it is
> attributed to fascist, so in saying this you're making a link to what,
> in many people's mind, is the emotionally charged issue of Nazis.

Hey, Genius, if the shoe fits...





> > Some folks, like you, think that it is OK to torture one man to save 10,
> > because the ends justify the means.

> No, not because "the ends justify the means". That is your subjective
> interpretation of the objective fact you are faced with a choice of
> either torturing one human, or choosing to allow ten other innocent
> humans to die.

You just don't know the logical underpinnings of your position. That is
because you spent too much time flunking out of physics, and disdaining
philosophy. This is VERY basic ethics - the kind of stuff that sophmores
learn, and discuss over a joint or a beer. Read a book, fer Chrissakes.
Its not like we're breaking new ground here.



> "The ends justifies the means" is just a emotionally charged catchphrase.

> > Other folks think that certain actions are justified if they will hasten
> > the return of a just society to this planet, because the ends justify the
> > means. After all, what could be more important than doing such good,
> > important work? Surely saving 10 people pales in comparison to bringing
> > justice to billions, eh?
> >
> > So they (and you) say that in order to bring about a good result, we can
> > do stuff that hurts a few people: like flying airplanes into skyscrapers.
> >
> > Is that what you really think? Or are you just confused? What else do
> > you and Osama have in common, besides the deepest, most basic aspects of
> > your moral fiber?
> >
> > Read a book, fer Chrissakes, before you start spouting off about stuff you
> > know nothing about.

> I think you should either join in the discussion in a useful and
> productive way, or stop posting to this thread.

I think that you should be honest enough to admit that you share moral
underpinnings with the ethical relativists or that you should change your
position. There's nothing wrong with admitting that you made a mistake.
But it takes a big man to do it.

--
Why don't presidents fight the war?
Why do they always send the poor?

-- System of a Down
.

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