Re: Mini cabi needs heat

Thank you so much for the long reply. I have saved it and will sit down and
try to figure some of this out. I know what to look into now.

Sincerely,
Autumn


"Neon John" <no@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:d2u6k3t318rcrrp00ncm1vp25inbc9gpg2@xxxxxxxxxx
First thought. If it gets cold enough to worry about plowing the roads
then that
water heater in the crawl space is in a heap of trouble.

As for cost, in this new energy world, you have to actually do the math to
see what
is most economical. For example, here at my cabin, propane has always
been the
backup heat source of choice since electricity is fairly expensive
(9cents/kWh). The
last couple of years have inverted that equation. Propane has gone from
about 70-80
cents a gallon to $2.50 (quote I got about a month ago) in about 2 years.

It is now far cheaper to heat with electric space heaters when the
fireplace insert
isn't fired. I have a single circular radiant heater (the modern
safety-nazified
version of that traditional heater with the circular parabolic reflector
and cone
heating element) that keeps me warm while operating on the low power (500
watt
setting). This holds until the outside temperature gets into the 20s.

You'll need to sit down with a spread sheet and do some figuring. Assume
an
arbitrary amount of heat per month - it doesn't matter how much - and
compute the
cost of the various sources. I bet electricity will win, especially if
you don't
need it most of the time.

If you just need to satisfy the code nazis and don't really need any
supplemental
heat in the bedrooms then I suggest the cheapest electric space heater
that you can
find. Plug 'em in, let the code gestapo see 'em, then forget about 'em.

If power is unreliable during storms then you'll need actual backup heat
in case you
don't want to or can't fire the wood stove. Mine is a propane space
heater connected
to 2 100 lb tanks with an automatic changeover regulator. When one tank
empties it
transfers over to the other and raises a red flag to show me it's time to
unhook the
tank and haul it to town for filling. I have a 500 gallon tank but
there's no way
I'm going to sink >$1,500 in filling the thing.

I highly recommend the ceramic surface burner heaters. The Heater Buddy
is a
portable version of that kind of heater. A very thin sheet of flame burns
on the
surface of the ceramic plate which is heated to bright red. The ceramic
radiates
most of the heat as infrared which warms you long before it warms the air.
There are
a variety of wall-hanging unvented ceramic surface burner heaters
available at your
local big box store. I don't particularly care for the type that actually
burn a
flame (so-called blue flame heaters), as it is too easy for those to
produce carbon
monoxide. I have one of those wall-hangers that I attached feet and a
flex hose to
so that I can move it around to point at wherever I am.

The unvented propane heater is almost 100% efficient (minus only the heat
lost to
ventilation) and provides much needed winter humidity. Much nicer heat
than that
supplied by my old-fashioned vented space heater.

If you plan on going there in the winter (highly recommended) then you
need to plan
for getting snowed in and dealing with an extended power failure. Getting
snowed in
is fun if you're prepared. A minimum of a week's supply of food and
clothing is
mandatory. In the storm of 92, my place was isolated for 9 days, most of
that time
without power. I try to keep a minimum of a month's supply of food
on-hand, mainly
to minimize my trips out of the mountain to buy groceries. I live here
full time.

Especially since your water heater is electric, as is mine, a standby
generator is
almost essential. I have two, both for redundancy and to be able to take
advantage
of whichever fuel (gas or diesel) is less expensive at the moment. Looks
like it'll
be gasoline this year. I keep two weeks worth of fuel for each generator
on hand.
For your part-time use, I'd suggest a fuel-efficient 5kw generator and
10-15 gallons
of fuel.

Tightly sealed gas cans containing Stabil-treated gasoline will keep for a
year or
more. Every few months I normally pour my emergency fuel into a vehicle
and fill the
cans with new fuel, thus keeping it fresh.

Noise isn't a particular concern during an emergency in a remote location
so a
contractor's generator will be fine. Just pay attention to fuel
consumption (gallons
per hour at half and full load is the standard spec), as it can vary 2:1
between
engine designs.

A 5kw machine can run the water heater and a submersible well pump at the
same time.
You didn't mention water supply so I assume you have a well. You wouldn't
run the
genny all the time. Just a few hours to heat water, take showers and cook
if you
have an electric stove.

I have a large computer UPS with a large battery bank that powers my
lighting and my
refrigeration - what I call my "vital bus" - that carries me when the
generator isn't
running. I have a charger for it that will recharge the batteries in the
few hours
that I run the generator each day.

It may seem cozy and a lot of fun to get snowed in and have to take sponge
baths
using water heated on the stove. It is. For a day or so. Then it
becomes a real
drag. That's why I'm equipped to maintain my normal comforts during a
storm and
power outage. I cut back on things like excess lighting but I don't give
up my
creature comforts. I convert some of my lighting from the normal CF lamps
to Aladdin
kerosene mantle lamps. They provide good light AND heat and don't consume
UPS
battery power. I still need CF light for task lighting cuz the Aladdins
aren't
bright enough but those are minor loads.

John

On Tue, 20 Nov 2007 21:35:37 GMT, "Autumn" <leaves_of_autumn@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

We are building a cabin, 24x17feet, on crawl space in a place that has
heavy
snow in the winter. Honestly, we probably won't go there in the winter
because it is off the road too far to keep the road plowed. I want to heat
it with a wood type stove and propane logs, but code requires we have some
form of heat in the bedroom and bathroom. We were thinking some electric
baseboard heat but are hearing how incredibly expensive it is to run. We
would be using the heat in the spring and fall, probably a few times a
year
when there is snow. Everything will be winterized and shut down for the
winter.

We have put the hot water heater in the crawl space, but don't feel it is
big enough to go to the expense of a forced air furnace, also in the crawl
space. The bedroom is really small, I made it big enough for walking space
around a queen sized bed so we could have more space in the
livingroom/kitchen area.

Looking for suggestions....

Thank you,
Autumn

--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
Why the US is losing its competitivve edge:"It used to be that the USA was
pretty good at
producing stuff teenaged boys could lose a finger or two playing
with."-James Niccol



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