Re: Bush and Saudis play same old game




"Al Superczynski" <modeleral@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:3fp5g11gnp6p8ejlpbt8aa74o168v5p28v@xxxxxxxxxx
> On Tue, 16 Aug 2005 08:13:10 -0400, "Hooda Gest" <Be@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
>
> >You seem to think we can order Pakistan to clean up its frontier areas
and
> >they should just hop to it and get it done.
>
> Actually, what I think is that it would be in the Pakistani
> government's own best interests to get control of the border
> provinces.

As it would be in ours to get control of our borders. We're going in circles
here...

>
> >> We're hampered by not being able to operate openly on the
> >> Pakistani side of the border, apparently not even in hot pursuit, a
> >> tactic that is AFAIK permitted by so-called international law.
> >
> >That would be helpful but, then, what would you say if it isn't
effective?
> >Like it isn't effective in Afghanistan...
>
> It's not effective in Afghanistan precisely because the Taliban
> and al Qaeda can take refuge in Pakistan with virtually total
> impunity.

You don't know that. They seem to be having no trouble finding hiding places
in the eastern mountains and the south.

And we haven't closed off the border between Syria and Iraq either.

>
> >Deporting militant Imams
> >and preventing one from returning (when it looks like he fled) is not "in
> >advance", it is reaction.
>
> Seems proactive to me...

Proactive would have been to pick him up before July 7.
Proactive would have been to pick him up *on* July 7.


>
> >>...our government doesn't do anything clandestinely anymore? Get
> >> real.
> >
> >Sure it does. And when it is eventually revealed, the outcry is quite
loud.
> >Some of that outcry is by the right about "loss of freedom" and
"stripping
> >away rights" but most is from the left...
>
> When you typed 'when' you really meant 'if', right?

No, I meant "when". Both are equally valid in this case. The general public
only learns about something *when*it is revealed. We may learn long after
the operation is over (like the assassination attempts against Castro, for
example) but we learn about when it is revealed.

>
> >Offer your services as publicity and information advisor to the
president.
>
> I'm at his beck and call 24/7! ;-p
>
> >I am sure none of the administration has thought of these things.
>
> They've undoubtedly thought about it and rejected it. It's not
> the only mistake the administration has made in the Iraq war and the
> greater (so-called) 'GWoT'.

Maybe they rejected it for good reason. Maybe they felt it would backfire.
Bush is not exactly the Great Communicator.

>
> >The left already talks about the "propoganda campaign" of Karl Rove, et
al. Why would
> >you think a serious overt campaign to bolster support for the war
wouldn't
> >be painted the same way?
>
> How would that be any worse than the status quo? Don't you think
> that the American public senses that it's the Left that's controlling
> the debate?

And, in so doing, don't you think they reject the left's premise? You
certainly do, as do I.

But, yes, the public is inundated with negativity about the war, the
economy, just about everything and a large percentage just accept it. It's
that 20% who aren't already polarized that gets swayed by this. Look how
well it worked for the Dems in 1993 (the "worst economy in 50 years") yet it
didn't work in 2000 and it didn't work in 2004. So maybe it isn't working as
well as some on the left hope and some on the right fear.

>
> >...you seem to think that he isn't doing all that can be done.
>
> That's right.
>
> >And that is based on what actual evidence? Rumors of bin Ladin being in
the
> >area, stories of terror training camps in the region (except no satellite
> >photos of any such camps), and frustration about the situation.
>
> And the fact that he won't allow US, Coalition, or Afghan troops
> to operate openly in the frontier provinces, not even in hot pursuit.

You mean he doesn't want to appear to be a puppet of the US government or to
be giving up sovereignty in the region or to look weak and unable to get
control of the region and must rely on outsiders?

Why don't we call on Mexico to police our side of the border? We could sure
use the help.


--
Hooda Gest
"Respect is difficult to win, easy to lose."


http://www.afgha.com/

.