Re: FBI Raids Liberty Dollar - Confiscates All Ron Paul Dollar

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<snip>

ange with which to discharge that debt. Am I missing
something?

A Federal Reserve Note is a promissory note.

A FRN is not a promissory note, since it doesn't say that you
can redeem it for anything. A FRN is legal tender, which means
that creditors must accept it when their debtors discharge
their debts.

So what happened the day the Federal Reserve stopped backing
their Promissory Bank Notes with gold. Did they do as many
banks before them and printed more Notes than they had gold to
back them?

Of course.

Then did
it again when there was not enough silver in the bank vaults to
cover them again?

Of course.

The value of a dollar (i.e., the goods and services you can
exchange for it) relies on the magical power of the pooled belief
in the US government to maintain a orderly society for commerce.
This is not unlike the magical
property that you've attached to silver and gold. But you can't
eat them either.

Gold and especially Silver have many important uses in
manufactureing. For example the silver in you computer keyboard, or
you microwave touch pad. Silver is one of the most important
commodities and used in nearly every manufacturing process.

And so is titanium, but you're not proposing that as a base for
money. The monetary basis for Au and Ag relies on their magical
properties, not on their industrial usefulness.

I don't have a problem with titanium or even paladium. I'm sure both
would do much better than what we currently use. So long as the metal
content is close to the face value.

A dollar is still defined as:
DOLLAR, money. A silver coin of the United States of the value
of one hundred cents, or tenth part of an eagle.
2. It weighs four hundred and twelve and a half grains. Of
one thousand
parts, nine hundred are of pure silver and one hundred of alloy.
Act of January 18, 1837, ss. 8 & 9, 4 Sharsw. Cont. of Story's
L. U. S. 2523, 4; Wright, R. 162.

Your source is Bouvier's Law Dictionary, the 1856 edition. And it
has no applicability.

Just because you don't appreciate it's application does not mean it
is not applicable. The law is the law untill the law is changed.
Right? So when was the legal definition of a dollar changed? If it
has not been changed, it is still the same.

Law dictionaries are not dispositive. Dig up the "Act" of 1837,
check through the law establishing the Federal Reserve, and get back
to me


Did that law say anything about re-defining what a dollar is or is
not?

Probably. I don't know. This is your claim, so the burden of proof is
on you. Law dictionaries are not the law, so you'll have to do better
than that.

372.25 grains of pure silver

480 grains = 1 troy oz.

480 / 372.25 = .7755

1 Silver $ .7755 oz pure silver

Sept 20 Monex.com Silver @ $13.36 per ounce Spot.
Dec. 19 Monex.com Silver @ $14.12 per ounce Spot.

.7755 oz. = $10.36 in a real silver dollar Sept. 20 2007
.7755 oz = $10.95 in a real silver dollar. Dec. 19, 2007

Notice a trend?

Not from two data points.

You say below that merchants must accept FRNs in exchange for
their goods. They don't. They're free to set whatever terms
they want. If your corner gas station advertises that they want
10 pounds of potatoes for a gallon of gasoline, then you'd
better have spuds in the trunk when you fill up.

What if they want NORFED's Silver Libertys.

Then you better be lugging around silver if you want to do
business with them.

NOTE OF HAND, contracts. Another name, less technical, for a
promissory note. (q.v.) 2 Bl. Com. 467. Vide Bank note;
Promissory note, Reissuable note.

NORFED's Silver Libertys are money because
they have value even if NORFED is permanately shut down.

I'll repeat here. Money is anything that you can commonly use as
a medium of exchange, i.e., as an intermediary that has no value
other than its exchangeability. Is NORFED's coinage money? I
don't know. I've never tried to use NORFED's coinage in a
commercial transaction.
Legal tender, on the other hand, is a special kind of money, the
kind that under the law creditors have to accept as payment from
debtors.

Would you say evidence of debt a promissory note and evidence of
wealth (gold & silver coin) are of equal status whenn they are used
as money?

Tell me what you mean by "equal status," and I'll attempt an answer.

When you have two things that are opposites, it's hard to say they are
the same thing. The fact that you didn't take the bait means you are
not a fool on the issue.

I just didn't understand the bait. A promissory note is evidence of
debt, and money is the medium of exchange that may satisfy a debt. These
two things aren't in opposition; they're different things but not
opposites of each other. What are you getting at here?

United States Federal Reserve Notes will be worthless the same
day the United States is shut down.

Well, of course. What's your point? You think that the same day
the US is shut down you'll be able to eat Silver Liberties?

I will be able to trade silver coin or bullion for food or energy
unless the government passes a law confiscating all gold and
silver.

The hypothetical here is that it's the day after the US is shut down.
The gov won't be passing any laws on that day.

That's very good. What happens on that day to all the people who have
their life savings evidenced by federal reserve notes in the bank?
It'd be the same as when the Confederacy lost the war and the people
had trunks full of worthless Confederate paper money.

Depending on the situation, you might not be able to rtade bullion
either. But your point is obviously true. So what?

It would be a little
ironic for a government that was formed to protect private property
rights, to
treat the private property of it's citizens as loot.

And your point?

Every government eventually fails, when they forget why they were
formed, and what the duty of a public servant is. To often they
consider themselves the master and the public the servant.

Every government has either failed or hasn't yet failed. Does anyone
dispute that?

Governments hate competition! Of the 3 most important monopolies,
Money is the first most important monopoly.

And your point?

I was wondering if you have a point? or if you are pointless.

Even though I asked first, I'll answer you. I'm trying to understand
what you're talking about. You either say things that don't make sense
(FRN = promissory note, debt instruments as the opposite of money,
dictionary definitons of the dollar, etc.) or you say things that are
stone cold obvious (failed governments have worthless currency, US legal
tender is a monopoly).

<shrug>
Maybe it's just me.
</shrug>



Robert




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