Re: FBI Raids Liberty Dollar - Confiscates All Ron Paul Dollar


"Deadrat" <a@xxxxx> wrote in message
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"Robert Miller" <xyzstargazzr@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in
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"Deadrat" <a@xxxxx> wrote in message
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"richard" <spam@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 18:52:25 -0600, GeekBoy wrote:

"richard" <spam@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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http://www.law.emory.edu/law-library/research/ready-reference/us-f
ed
eral-law-and-documents/historical-documents-constitution-of-the-un
it ed-states/article-i-the-legislative-branch.html#c7656

Now where does the constitution give authority to private persons
to coin
money in any form?

By that response I take it you have never taken a cCvics or
Political Science class.

The US Consitution was setup to form the government.
The only place in it now that controls a private person is in the
13th Amendment that bans slavery.

Granted, businesses such as "Franklin Mint" do coin "money" but
these are
all collector items and not legal tender. Therefor they are
legal.

Will somebody please slap this *** for brains geekboy?
"YOU" are a resident of a state, which is part of the whole body of
the country. Therefor you are obligated to follow the laws on all
levels.

RESIDENT, international law. A minister, according to diplomatic
language, of a third order, less in dignity than an ambassador, or
an envoy. This term formerly related only to the continuance of the
minister's stay, but now it is confined to ministers of this class.
2. The resident does not represent the prince's person in his
dignity,
but only his affairs. His representation is in reality of the same
nature as that of the envoy; hence he is often termed, as well as
the envoy, a minister of the second order, thus distinguishing only
two classes of public ministers, the former consisting of
ambassadors who are invested with the representative character in
preeminence, the latter comprising all other ministers, who do not
possess that exalted character. This is the most necessary
distinction, and indeed the only essential one. Vattel liv. 4, c. 6,
73.

RESIDENT, persons. A person coming into a place with intention to
establish his domicil or permanent residence, and who in consequence
actually remains there. Time is not so essential as the intent,
executed by making or beginning an actual establishment, though it
be abandoned in a longer, or shorter period. See 6 Hall's Law Journ.
68; 3 Hagg. Eccl. R. 373; 20 John. 211 2 Pet. Ad. R. 450; 2 Scamm.
R. 377.

And your point? Anyone within the jurisdiction of the US or one of
the United States is subject to its laws, with the exception of those
operating under treaties that grant diplomatic immunity.

The Supreme Court has declared that there are three definitions
of the term United States:

1. The 'term United States' may be used in any one of several
senses. It may be merely the name of a sovereign occupying
the position analogous to that of other sovereigns in the
family of nations.

2. It may designate the territory over which the sovereignty of
the United States extends, or

3. It may be the collective name of the States which are united
by and under the Constitution.


1. What is a state?
State. A people permanently occupying a fixed
territory bound together by common-law habits and custom
into one body politic exerciing, through the medium of an
organized government, independent sovereignty and control
over all persons and things within its boundaries, capable
of making war and peace and of entering into international
relations with other communities of the globe. United
States v. Kusche, D.C. Cal., 56 F. Supp.201 207, 208.
The organization of social life which exercises sovereign
power in behalf of the people. Delany v. Moralitis,
C.C.A.Md.,136 F. 2d 129, 130.

And your point? A state is either a term for a nation or it is one
of the 50 making up the USA.

Can you print your own driver's license, license plates? Your own
passport?
According to you, you have authority to do as you damn well please.
So why don't you grow pot and sell it? Then you can try out your
theory on the judge and you'll be screaming from behind the bars.

The issue is deeper by far than you might imagine!

As far as the driver's license is concerned. Did you know that a
driver is a
"commercial operator"? The government has the authority to regulate
commerce, but not the personal travel of individuals who are U.S.
national permanately domiciled inhabitants of the various States of
the Union?

Yet they do, I have a "driver's license" but I did not waive my
rights to get it.

Your license allows you to legally operate a motor vehicle. If you
don't drive, it has nothing to do with your right to travel.

A "motor vehicle" is a legal term for a commercial vehicle but has
been broadly and vagely defined to mean any conveyence with wheels and
a mechanical propulsion system. Yet not a farm tractor or of a
military nature.

But nothing to do with your general right to travel.

At one time the state only had the authority to regulate a horse & wagon or
carriage
if they were used as carrying cargo or passengers for hire, but not an
individual's
right to use the same means to travel from one place to another.

So during the National Emergency FDR declared the government as part of that
national emergency changed a common law right into a priviledge under
administrative
law. The Congress was bankrupted and made a trustee of the National debt.
The
Creditors assumed control of the reins of power.

I registered my automobile, but I did not ceed it to the State as
their property.

You probably didn't cede it either. What's your point?

Go ahead dude. Print your own money. I'll send you a saw when you
get busted.

Will an I.O.U. be fine by you?

No, he asked you to print your own money, i.e., facsimiles of US
currency.

NORFED did not print anything that come close to looking like U.S.
Currency.

Or coin, I take it. Then they should be OK.

What is a coin?

I'll start collecting and taking my pay as US Mint Silver and Gold Coins.
Then claim the face value as what I have been paid. The legal definition of
a
dollar still does not include Federal Reserve Notes.

Merely calling something a dollar, is not the same thing as being a dollar.
By
the actual dollars. When using real U.S. dollars 90% silver coin gasoline
is
still $.20 per gallon if you concider that at $2.80 per gallon FRN = $2.80 /
$14
silver content in the old silver dollars.

The dollar has not gone down much. It's about the same it has always been,
but people have broadened the definition of a dollar to include things that
bear
little reality to a real dollar.


I assure you I will not get busted.

Of course not. What's your point?

My point is if I don't do something illegal, I wont get busted.
The language is important.

My, but aren't we the naive one. Better: "I shouldn't get busted."

I stand corrected, since we don't have a system of justice, but one
of force by those who have it, imposed not for liberty, but control.

It is an
contract and it may or may not be as defective as a Federal Reserve
Note. Which is invalid as a promissory note.

What does this mean. That your IOU is just as invalid as a FRN note
is invalid? Or that your IOU is invalid to be used a FRN?

Neither of these makes sense. Your IOU is your promise to pay
someone an amount of money. A FRN *is* money.

Are you sure you know what money is? Many things can be used in
commerce that does not make it money.

Well, you may have a point here. I don't really care what money is. I
care what legal tender is. I should have said a FRN *is* legal tender.

Money is commonly accepted as evidence of wealth. FRN's are evidence
of debt.

Many things are commonly accepted as evidence of wealth -- property,
cattle, Rolex watches. In this country, FRNs or their equivalent are the
most convenient medium of exchange.

The monopoly of them will be fought long and hard with little concern for
the greatest good. Except how that good is for the least number of people.

If you don't know what the law is how will you know if it's broken
by the agents responsible for enforcing the law?

"PROMISSORY NOTE, contracts. A written promise to pay a certain sum
of money, at a future time, unconditionally. 7 Watts & S. 264; 2
Humph. R. 143; 10 Wend. 675; Minor, R. 263; 7 Misso. 42; 2 Cowen,
536; 6 N. H. Rep. 364; 7 Vern. 22. A promissory note differs from a
mere acknowledgment of debt, without any promise to pay, as when the
debtor gives his creditor an I 0 U. (q.v.) See 2 Yerg. 50; 15 M. &
W. 23. But see 2 Humph. 143; 6 Alab. R. 373.

In its form it usually contains a promise to pay, at a time therein
expressed, a sum of money to a certain person therein named, or to
his order, for value received. It is dated and signed by the maker.
It is never under seal. "

"MONEY. Gold, silver, and some other less precious metals, in the
progress of
civilization and commerce, have become the common standards of
value; in order to avoid the delay and inconvenience of regulating
their weight and quality whenever passed, the governments of the
civilized world have caused them to be manufactured in certain
portions, and marked with a Stamp which attests their value; this is
called money. 1 Inst. 207; 1 Hale's Hist. 188; 1 Pardess. n. 22;
Dom. Lois civ. liv. prel. t. 3, s. 2, n. 6.

Do you understand in what important way an "FRN" is defective given
the definitions above?

Do you undersatnd in what important way a dictionary definition is
defective given a corresponding legal definition?

I'm sure if you do you will plead ignorance or some other nonsense.

It could be he'll plead ignorance on the ground that you're not being
clear. Could you state your points more succinctly?

I know I'm confused. But that could just be me.

Sorry.

You can call something anything you want. You can say the moon is
made of green cheese. It's not! Even if you get everyone to agree
with you it will never be made of green cheese.

FRNs aren't called money without reason. FRNs have the operational
characteristics of money.

They also have the operational characteristics of every failed paper
currency
that has gone before and into the history books inflated into worthlessness.

You can spend FRN's like money and loosely define FRN's as money,
but when you get to the explicit meaning of the word "money" it is the
opposite of a "promissory note".

I'm having a hard time in the antonym department here. A promissory note
is a promise to pay, in other words, a debt. Money is the medium of
exchange with which to discharge that debt. Am I missing something?

A Federal Reserve Note is a promissory note.

NOTE OF HAND, contracts. Another name, less technical, for a promissory
note. (q.v.) 2 Bl. Com. 467. Vide Bank note; Promissory note, Reissuable
note. > > NORFED's Silver Libertys are money because they have value even
if> > NORFED is permanately shut down. United States Federal Reserve Notes>
will be worthless the same day the United States is shut down.> > The day
that the US is shut down, the operational value of Silver Liberty > coins
will be pretty much worthless as well.> On Ebay they're value has gone up,
as collectables. As long as silver has value NORFED's Silver Libertys will
also have value> > Roman gold coins are still money merely for the gold in
them even> > though Rome fell centuries ago.> > Roman gold coins have their
own not inconsiderable inconveniences as > money.> The Roman government has
long ago fallen, but their gold and silver coins remain of value, even
though there is no government to back them.> > Golden dollars will be
merely> > collectors items in as many years after the U.S. falls.> > Is your
point that a country's currency is only as good as the country's > ability
to provide a stable market for the currency's use?> It is only the force of
law that says merchants must accept the legal tender money that gives the
money value in the market place.> If so, may we file that under
"obvious"?Silver and gold coins don't need a law to be of value. Only the
need in the market place for gold and silver.Robert


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