An Oldie but a goodie :) Ticketed for Flashing my Head Lights in Florida
- From: "Cyberzero" <mwj@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: 29 Dec 2005 19:46:21 -0800
There is a real ugly older thread out here that hashed this subject to
death.
Google groups and Look up "316.2397" and see for youself.
But I do want to open up part of this again and if by this Usenet and
my other efforts with local and state reps figure out that the law was
designed to stop people from flashing there lights, then I want to find
some people interested in starting something grass root to change the
law in several ways.
I live in Port Saint Lucie Florida. East coast almost center of the
state.
I received a ticket for flashing my headlights.
Please read below the details of what happen.
Let me say first and for most, I believe in law.
Laws are mostly good.
2ndly Sorry for the long ass post
I've built up a lot of information that I would like to get out and
see what people think.
I'm not a screaming lib or anything. (no offence to you screaming
libs out there.)
If anything, I believe in the constitution. I believe that our rights
are under consent attack. It's all of our duty to defend them or
it's our consequence that we will lose those rights.
I believe in my case, the intent of the law was not designed to stop
people from being able to signal with there headlights.
It is my believe that in may cases it not so much the law, but the
Application of law can be the problem many times.
For what is the law but the will of the people?
If it's truly the will of the people to have this law, then it will
stand. If it is not, then it will not.
I have several topics I would like to cover and talk about.
If there is interest in this post, maybe it would be a good idea to
separate these out after this post. To keep each subject on focus.
Flashing Headlights
1st My case.
Again please see below the details of my case.
If it comes to light that the law is right and it is illegal for me to
flash my lights, I am looking to try to change the law.
To change it under "my believe" that it interferes with my right of
free speech. Even though in my case it was more about being punished
for just adjusting my lights more than free speech.
Make a case if you think I'm wrong or right. I would enjoy reading
it.
Ticket Monies
2nd Doing my research I believe I have also found a problem with how
fines are collected and used with traffic violations.
In the county I live, from the county directly, they have issued over
10,000 tickets.
The city which I live, who is separate from the county, I have found
from unofficial sources that they have issued double that. Or 20,000
tickets.
If you figure each ticket is an average fine of $115.00 that works out
to be 2.3 million dollars a year for the city. And 1.15 million to the
county so far this year.
That is a big pile of cash and is a big incentive for a city or county
to become a ticket town.
I would like your help to figure a way that monies would go to the
state and not back directly to the county's or city government. Or if
they did receive monies, that the monies where not enough to inspirer
governments to become "ticket towns".
Another unofficial stat I found on the web says that the total tickets
in dollars for the State of Florida is something like 9 Billion dollars
a year.
Seatbelt law
3rd I would like to look at repealing the state seatbelt law. The U.S.
Congress did something very clever a few years ago. They tied highway
money with passing seatbelt laws.
Our governor signed a law this year making seatbelt violation a primary
offence. I.E. Now it can be the primary reason you can be pulled over.
Does seatbelts save lives? Yes they do.
But in many ways this is very much like the Florida Hemet law that was
repealed in 2000. It should be a personal choice. Not regulated by the
state as a source or revenue.
I believe that to be a perversion of the law.
On the surface, the seatbelt law sound like a good law. Save lives is
good right?
But the application is that it's a revenue maker.
So which intent is stronger? Or which intent is going to be the
reality?
To save your life? Or make money for the government?
Some may say both. I think that the 2 are in conflict.
I believe that money has to be the main reason otherwise the remedy
"or fine" would be a mandated class or required retest not just a
monetary fine.
If we are not careful we will allow ourselves to be legislated to the
poor house.
And isn't it funny how each legally passed law always seems to come
with some kind of monetary fine?
Isn't that Taxation with out representation?
Also what about this?
http://www.governor.maryland.gov/pressreleases/2005/060605_seatbeltlaws.html
Excerpted from "Governor Ends Police Night Vision Program," WJZ,
Jun 6, 2005 11:30 am US/Eastern
A new plan to use night vision goggles to spy motorists without
seatbelts is over before it really began.
Governor Robert L. Ehrlich, Jr., today told Maryland State Police
Superintendent Tim Hutchins to discontinue use of night vision
equipment for seat belt enforcement.
"Gov. Ehrlich isn't a fan of big brother tactics when it comes to law
enforcement. That's the very reason why he vetoed speed cameras," said
Shareese DeLeaver, a spokeswoman for Ehrlich.
"The governor felt there is an appropriate time and place for the use
of night vision equipment. However, he did not feel that seat belt
enforcement rose to that level," DeLeaver said.
State Police will continue enforcement of Maryland's seat belt law, but
will not be using the night vision equipment that was employed during a
test in Montgomery County last week.
"Enforcement of all traffic laws should continue in an effort to save
lives and reduce injuries," said Governor Ehrlich. "State troopers will
continue to use all appropriate resources to ensure that Maryland's
drivers are buckled up."
The use of the equipment in a multi-agency enforcement operation was a
pilot program to test its effectiveness in enforcing Maryland's seat
belt law after dark. The only time the equipment was used by State
Police was for a three-hour period last Wednesday night in the
Rockville area of Montgomery County. ...
Is this next???
Is this the people's will?
Here is my long ass story with misc. information
On 11/22 I was pulled over during a traffic enforcement blitz.
I was cited for no seatbelt.
I was not wearing my seatbelt and have no problem with this as far as
the officer doing his duty.
I paid this Citation
But as I was pulling back out, I turned back on my headlights and was
changing lanes and adjusting my headlights back down from hi to low.
I couldn't see my indicator light on the dash and lifted up my
sunglasses and checked again to see if my hibeams where down.
I was then pulled over again.
Was asked if I was signaling other on coming traffic.
I advised the officer what I was doing and the officer went away for a
few minutes and came back with another citation.
Also Paid but am complaining
I was cited under
Florida Law
316.2397(7)
*******************************************************************************************************************************************
7) Flashing lights are prohibited on vehicles except as a means of
indicating a right or left turn, to change lanes, or to indicate that
the vehicle is lawfully stopped or disabled upon the highway or except
that the lamps authorized in subsections (1), (2), (3), (4), and (9)
and s. 316.235(5) are permitted to flash.
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0316/SEC2397.HTM&Title=->
;2000->Ch0316->Section%202397#0316.2397
Or click here http://tinyurl.com/dzqco
*******************************************************************************************************************************************
This was in error 2 different ways.
1st I did change lanes during this so called "Light Flashing" which if
you look at the law is permissible.
2nd I believe the officer gave me a ticket because he thought I was
signaling oncoming traffic that there was a speed trap in the area.
The officer gave me a ticket to (Spank me so to speak) for flashing my
lights.
I did nothing wrong.
Further more, it is my believe that even if I had been signaling on
coming traffic, that there is nothing wrong with this under the
protection of United states free speech Claus in the 1st amendment.
Please see the following:
*******************************************************************************************************************************************
http://www.newschannel5.com/content/news/2637.asp
Jurge Dismisses Headlight Flashing Citation
Posted: 11/4/2003 9:59:37 AM
A Williamson County judge has dismissed a Franklin police citation
against a man who warned other drivers of a speed trap.
He flashed his lights at them.
Harley "Bill" Walker says it cost him about a thousand dollars to
appeal a City Court judge's ruling against him.
County Judge Russ Heldman yesterday ruled Walker was right about the
citation violating his free speech guarantees.
Officer Chris Marlowe wrote him a ticket for interfering with a police
officer's duties on August 14th.
The Franklin city police chief has now written a memo to officers,
telling them not to cite drivers for flashing their lights in warning.
Heldman invited appeal of his ruling, saying it's an issue scholars
may want to investigate.
For his part, Walker is pleased to win his case, but says he'll flash
only his brights next time. He says the only way Marlowe knew he was
flashing his lights was because his tail lights were going on and off.
(Copyright 2003, AP)
*******************************************************************************************************************************************
So there is precedence and hopefully it will not come to a court case.
But I feel strongly enough to do this if needed.
But in the mean time.......
This week I believe I was targeted again.
The normal traffic enforcement was out and working.
One of 3 or 4 officers I see out there on a regular basis started
following me.
As I came down the street from the Walmart and pulled in to HomeDepot.
Half was down to the Home Depot, a police officer tailed me like he was
going to pull me over. I am sure he was running my plates.
I was minding the limit and was wearing my belt and everything when a
officer pulled behind me, followed me for over 1/2 mile and in to home
depot lot.
I was with my wife and was not driving funny, fast or had I given the
officer any reason had no reason but one to follow me or run my plates.
Does anyone know if they can run my plate for no reason? Fishing for
something to pull me over?
Can anyone tell me if this is legal?
This was the final straw for me and a reason I am posting this and
following up with state and local government.
Some Stats about Saint Lucie County
**********************************************************************************************************************************************
From: Mark W [mailto:w........@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 1:16 PM
To: mwid.....@.....o.com
Subject: Your questions
These statistics apply only to the St. Lucie County Sheriff's Office.
2004
Total tickets 11429
Speed 8212
Seatbelt 1170
Crashes worked 2345
2005 so far
Total tickets 10603
Speed 7487
Seatbelt 1431
Crashes worked 2092
We do not write "dollar amounts" of tickets. State law determines the
fines for traffic offenses.
The Sheriff's Office receives no money directly from the proceeds of
tickets. All tickets are payable to the St. Lucie County Clerk of the
Circuit Court which determines allocations to the county and other
units of government under state law. For those details, please call the
Clerk of the Circuit Court's Office. The web site is:
http://www.slcclerkofcourt.com and contains a list of telephone
numbers.
The main telephone number for St. Lucie County government is xxx-xxxx.
>>From there you can ask to be connected with the Court Clerk's Office.
Mark W
Public Information Officer
St. Lucie XXXXXXXXXXXXX
470Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Fort Pierce, FL 34981-4825
Office: XXXXXXXXX8
Mobile any time: 7XXXXXXXXXX
E-mail address: wXxxxxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
**********************************************************************************************************************************************
I am a new resident of Port Saint Lucie as of November of Last year. I
came from Columbus Ohio which is at the edge of a little town called
New Rome. see http://www.newromesucks.com
It's a town that is no more. The state took it apart.
It was a town of 60 people with 30 officers.
I believe that PSL may be using the same kind of tactics that New Rome
used.
Of course anyone you talk to any officer or official they will always
tell you
There are no quotas and they are just following the state law.
But if they receive a piece of the tickets they are writing, isn't this
self promoting?
Another interesting fact I would like to know.
How many police officers vs.. how many was there 10 years ago?
http://www.911hotjobs.com/eastern2/lucie.htm
Police Officer
Port St Lucie, Florida
Salary Range
$37,883 - $60,208
Closing Date
Until all positions are filled
Job Description
Police Officer (full time) with experience may start at a higher pay
rate depending on experience.
Reserve officer part time
Minimum Qualifications
*U.S. Citizen
*Over age 19
*Good moral character
*Prior law enforcement or corrections experience preferred but not
required.
*Prior military experience preferred but not required.
*College eduaction preferred but not required.
*Preference will be given to those applicants already certified in the
State of Florida.
Other Information For Applicants
Applicants for part time Reserve Officer that are willing to work 20
hours per week or less must be Florida State certified. Salary is
$18.21 per hour.
Contact Information
Port St Lucie Police Dept.
121 SW Port St Lucie Blvd
Port St Lucie, Florida 34983
xxxxxxxxxxxxvXXXXassi@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Phone Number: (772)xxxxxxxxx
Fax Number: (772) xxxxxxxxxxx
Say each officer made 45K a year that could be 51.1 new police
officers a year with the full amount of the money they brought in.
I am beginning to believe that PSL is writing whatever they can and
what ever sticks, sticks.
What ever sticks is still a big pile of money.
So let me ask this..
What do you think?
Am I guilty?
Has my free speech been violated?
What would you do next?
If it was legal what they did, how would one go about changing it?
Am I tipping at windmills?
Give me your 2Cents
Michael Willis
Port Saint Lucie Florida
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