Re: I hate homework!

In article <G62dne5zQPA1BWbanZ2dnUVZ_vKunZ2d@xxxxxxxxxxx>, Donna Metler says...


"Banty" <Banty_member@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:ftg26t02870@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
In article <jPidncnym7NY5WbanZ2dnUVZ_rOqnZ2d@xxxxxxxxxxx>, Donna Metler
says...



"Chookie" <ehrebeniuk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:ehrebeniuk-298ACB.23213708042008@xxxxxxx
In article <9nBJj.37$PJ3.8@trndny02>, Jeff <kidsdoc2000@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

In 6 hours of school, the kids are getting opportunities to practice,
and
can
ask the teacher for help *as* they need it and *if* they need it.

Actually, if they think they need it. And, if a teacher has 20
students,
providing individual help to students is rather difficult.

Oh? Depends how competent the teacher is, I suppose.

AND how demanding the students are. 20 fairly autonomous students is quite
managable. However, add a few students who have a much higher need for
attention, and it gets hard quickly. At least in the USA, due to the way
some of our laws have been interpreted by courts, it is very rare to have
an
elementary school class that does not have 2-3 students with academic
needs,
and many of these children need much more support (some close to 1-1
attention) just to get through the day. It takes very exceptional needs
now
before support is provided in the classroom, and it has to be quite
extreme
indeed before a child is placed in an alternative setting in most schools.

Add students still learning English to the mix, and students who are "high
need", but not technically disabled, and it's easy for the independent
practice time provided to truly be "independent"-and often with a high
level
of distraction at that. In many cases, kids are likely to get more support
and a quieter work environment at home.

When I was in high school, I avoided study halls like the plague because I
couldn't study, couldn't read, couldn't do much of anything-they were held
in the cafeteria and were just plain LOUD. Not because students were
really
being disruptive, but because there was so much noise from the kitchens
and
due to the cinder block walls, tile floors, and high ceilings that sounds
just echoed and were magnified. For many elementary students now, I truly
think in-class work time is similar to that study hall. It's a nice
thought
that the kids can get their work done at school, where the teacher can
help,
but actually, unless your school does levelled classes, it's unlikely that
a
regular, average kid with reasonably supportive parents wouldn't be better
off going home a couple of hours early and doing the work at home-which
isn't allowed under USA attendance laws.


So - you're saying the teachers don't have time to teach kids, so they're
looking to parents to?

If we're sharing their job (and paying them to boot), why can't I arrange
things
like - getting the assignments on Fridays so that I can manage our family
time
and the energy and attention level of my schoolchild? Which so hugely
mitigated
our situation the one time I was able to do it, that it's all I'm
individually
asking for a minimum. But I got no break there.

There is *always* a cost to offloading workload, at the least in
facilitating
those offloaded to.

Let alone many other issues with the situation. But, frankly, I'm
skeptical
that this is the *main* reason or even a primary reason for the increased
homework as the usual response would be to lower total workload. For
example, I
don't recall having teachers hanging above me while I was writing out 20
sentences in second grade, nor did I write weekly expository one page
essays in
third grade.

I'm not saying it's a good thing-not unless you DO shorten the school day!
But I am saying that kids doing work at school isn't nearly as efficient as
Jeff would like to believe, and the illusion of the teacher being able to
help often is not the case for the average child, because the teacher is so
occupied with the children who need her more. It's kind of like having a 6
yr old and a toilet training 2 yr old who is into everything. The 6 yr old
simply is NOT getting 50% of the time you can spend with the child. And if
you've got a child who can't focus in a chaotic situation, even if the
school doesn't assign homework for the sake of homework, and only sends home
unfinished assignments, the load can get ridiculous fast, as the child has
almost 6 hours of work they were unable to complete in school to finish. Add
the 10 minutes per grade per night (and realize that most teachers seem very
BAD at time estimates, forgetting that it takes a 6 yr old a LOT longer to
write than an adult!) and you quickly have hours of homework every
night-with most of it stuff that can't easily be assigned a week at a time
because it's coming from that day's lessons.

So, you're saying a *majority* of the homework is left-over classwork?? And
furhtermore (below) because of this you don't think it's possible to assign the
homework ahead of time??

Look - if it is consistently too much for class time, it's time to assign *less*
work.

Frankly, I'd be very suspicious
of a class which meets daily that COULD assign homework a week at a time,
simply because if you have it ready that far in advance, you're not
adjusting to what the students need.

Now wait a minute. You're playing both ends of the stick here, at your end of
the stick everytime being a reason to give all the latitude and the veracity to
the teacher.

1. Homeworks are necessary because there is not enough time for the teacher to
give individual attention to a regular student during class time.

2. Homeworks can't be assigned ahead of time because the teacher is adjusting
the homeworks individually for the particular students based on what he or she
sees during class time.

Oh phooey.

IS it, or is it NOT - true - that the teacher is so overwhelmed she can't give
individual attention to the students to help them with their learning.
Homeworks are *not* being adjusted individuall, and if there is adjustment to be
made, it is *much* easeir to give an individual student a few minutes of class
time. Than to produce and communicate individual assignments.



My feeling is that most schools are NOT an efficient way of learning for
most individuals-and that the excessive homework is a combination of that
lack of efficiency coupled with an increased workload and expectations. It's
unlikely that 2nd graders 20 years ago would have been writing 20 sentences
for one assignment even in class, because most 2nd graders had only learned
to read and write at all in 1st grade, and were still learning in 2nd. Now
they're expected to pretty much have those skills mastered by that point.

I think that's the main problem. And the rationalizations about homework times
(which are true only for adults and very focussed students, whose existence
seems to stand in as existence proof for teachers to say *all* students can get
it done in 10 minutes/grade). And the pervasive pressure to redshirt kids,
especially boys, are *consistent* with this.

The stuff about mainstreamed students (thought there would be persons present or
assitants assigned - even a class of non-IEP students have teacher assistants
present) has led you to rather inconsistent complaints. Which I take as a sign
of, although it may be a stressor, isn't the fundamental problem.

In my district, the homeworks are mandated, they're quite consistent from class
to class and school to school (and state to state, and since Chookie started
this thread, continent to continent), and the rest of this stuff about how many
minnites it's 'sposed to take and how the bedroom desk lamp is set up, yadda
yadda, is just desperate bones thrown to parents from educators who don't want
to buck the trends.

At least that's been the way it's been looking to me.

Banty

Banty

.

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