Re: A Room of One's Own

I'm going to top post because this is making me too angry to go back
and unpick every nit.

Erika wrote

I mean really, how adult is it to
expect that your parents will have rooms in their house sitting
unused for nine months out of every year?

You later said

I don't think it's something
that is *owed* to any normal, healthy child-

This implies to me that if your parents have the rooms sitting unused
that they are somehow enabling immature behavior.

I was raised to believe that there would come a time when
I was to be an adult and make my own way in the world. Even as
a freshman in college, I'd have lived on Ramen for a month
rather than call and ask for money from my parents. I felt
that it was a time for me to take care of myself to the
maximum extent possible (which wasn't 100 percent at that time,
but I was darned well going to do what I could). I just wouldn't
have had the gall to tell my parents that they couldn't use
my room while I was gone because I knew I was a short-timer
at that point in my parents' home. Sure, there could have been
circumstances that would have forced me back there longer term,
and they would have been happy to accommodate (in fact I did live
there for a year between undergrad and grad school because I knew
it was only going to be a one year break and they offered), but
I always felt a little like a guest in the home after leaving
for college because in my opinion, I *was* a guest. They'd
fulfilled their obligation to keep a roof over my head, and
the rest was just gravy.

I was raised to believe that I was going to be an adult and make my
own way in the world, but that there was nothing wrong with going to
my parents for help if I needed it especially in the transition period
which a freshman in college surely is. This is the main point that I
felt was COLD and I still feel that way. I'm sorry that you think it
is wrong for me to feel that way, but that's the way I feel and I
don't think I should have to justify or defend it.

I was confident that my mom would welcome me back home, even after I
was grown and had a family of my own, and it was still my home. I was
not a guest - I was still part of the family, although of course there
were some things to be discussed like how finances were to be handled.

My grandmother wrote in her 50th anniversary college publication, she
said that she was always homesick for her home in NC (she lived in
PA). And she spent a lot of time at home with her parents when my
mother was a child. My mother actually originally had a southern
accent because I think she was in NC with her mom and grandparents
more than she was in PA.

We've always helped out our children where we could. Having their
rooms available to them was only part of it. DH and I help them move
and DH has done numerous jobs to help our children with their houses -
from helping to re-roof after Hurricane Andrew in Miami to figuring
out the electrical problems which caused the bathroom light switch to
blow a fuse. We've provided them cars, and DH has repaired the cars
for them. I don't think we ever gave them money (except temporarily -
I went to a house closing for dd#1 when she was overseas and they
miscalculated the cash that would be owed at closing, so I wrote a
check for that but she repaid me right away) but when we visit we
always take everyone out to dinner at least once.

I wouldn't dismantle the room the day after my child left
for college, but I wouldn't feel compelled to let a room sit
that fallow for years on end while the people living in the
home year round are cramped for space either.

But if they are not cramped for space? It seems like you assume that
everyone is cramped for space and therefore it MUST be wrong that the
rooms are not being used for something else

. For myself, I can't make
sense of the idea that a significant portion of my home
should be off limits to more practical uses in order to
maintain a space for children who are grown adults with
homes of their own.... I certainly don't have any hard feelings that my childhood room
no longer exists! I would actually think it rather odd if it did.

So here you are saying that if I keep my children's rooms and don't do
something else with them that I'm ODD.

We bought the houses we bought and lived in the houses we lived in so
that we would not be cramped for space. We took other options that
cost in other ways - sometimes the house was a complete fixer-upper
which we lived in while we fixed it up (our current house), and
sometimes it was a slightly longer commute - there are always trade
offs.

My sister has a tiny house in town so that they can walk everywhere,
and they are cramped for space. When her children and grandchildren
come to visit they have to stay in a hotel. We chose to have space
and be out in the country (which we prefer anyway). About a mile from
town but it is a small town.

Your whole focus seems to be that the parents MUST be cramped for
space and not repurposing the student's space MUST BE because the
student is immature and selfish.

My point is that if there is no real pressing need for the space, then
repurposing it quickly (or at all) is cold.

I just make a distinction between what is *normal* to
feel and what standard we should hold ourselves to. I.e., we
all have some fears and ambivalence about becoming independent
(or having our children become independent), but that doesn't
mean that we shouldn't have expectations about their becoming
independent or that we should coddle them by making it effortless
to remain dependent. At that stage of the game, if both sides
aren't a tad uncomfortable, there's probably something wrong! ;-)

Even though there is a smiley there - I don't agree. Yes children
should become independent. But helping them out isn't necessarily
'coddling'

Ericka Kammerer <eek@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Rosalie B. wrote:
Ericka Kammerer <eek@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

But it does seem cold if as soon as the kid is out the door if his mom
completely redecorates his room and makes a permanent guest room out
of it while stowing or throwing out all of the college student's
things.

Again, I never said they should.

or charging rent if they go locally and commute
If you'll go back and re-read, you'll see that I never
suggested charging rent to a child who is living at home and
going to school.

You cut what everyone said and all the attributions off when you
protested that what you said wasn't cold. So I can't re-read.

The posts are all still there if you just go back up
the thread.

is having
your own interests in the center and not theirs,
So even though they are at least 18 years old, there
is absolutely no sense that they should ever consider the needs
of anyone else? The parents' lives continue to revolve exclusively

I didn't say that either.

Then perhaps you are not disagreeing with what *I* have
said and might possibly wish to direct your accusations of being
"cold" to someone else or chalk it up to a misinterpretation on
your part.

I don't think the room should be 'off limits' of kept as any kind of
shrine. Just that the person, even though 18 is still part of the
family and his/her input should ALSO be considered. Just because he
has gone out to college, doesn't mean he/she isn't still part of the
family and not to be included in any discussion. As a mother, I WANT
my children to come home and visit me, and I don't want to send any
kind of signal that indicates I'm done with them.

Being part of the family does not require that one's
parents maintain all one's stuff well into adulthood. Using
the room for other needed purposes only sends that message if
the child feels a sense of entitlement to the room beyond his
or her ability to use it.

As I said, my parents have two guests rooms in pretty
heavy rotation. Is it such a bad thing to enjoy hosting guests?
To take in others who might be in a rough spot and in need of a
place to stay? To *wish* to offer the hospitality of your home,
rather than asking folks to stay in a hotel? To wish to decorate
your own home in a way that pleases you and your guests once your
child is perfectly capable of maintaining his or her own home?

No that's not bad if the child IS maintaining his/her own home. But
at college they aren't doing that yet. I'm sure a reasonable older
teen would not mind his/her room being used while he was gone or even
converted to another use. It was the draconian scenario that I was
objecting to.

Then you might consider that you should attribute being
"cold" to someone who actually advocated that scenario.

Although I've never been much in favor of 'decorating'. As long as
the colors are compatible, I would rather reuse my same furniture and
maybe recover the upholstery. I don't want my home to look like some
kind of magazine layout - not that there's any danger of that anyway.
My house can serve (as Peg Bracken once remarked) as a bad example so
that everyone else can feel superior.

Which is fine for you. Others might make a different
choice. That doesn't make them cold or mean that they're
rejecting their child.


Perhaps you have indications now that your child/children will think
they have a roof and maid services for their whole lives, but I would
tend to doubt it from the way you write here. My children certainly
were not that way, nor was I, even though my mom welcomed me back for
extended visit and even though occasionally my children have come back
home for short period. Without paying rent.
Again, if you re-read, you will see that I never

I don't know who said that - it's not on this post.

As far as I can tell, *NO ONE* advocated that,
so it would have been difficult to leave such a statement
in the post.

expressed any intention of charging rent for children home during
college breaks, home during emergencies, or home for some other
similar reason. I would certainly hope that my children would
want to be self-supporting, would make good choices, and would
not feel a sense of entitlement. If they don't, I'll certainly
do what I can to put the incentives in the right place.

You did say that you saw many examples of deadbeat kids.

I said that I have seen many examples of kids taking
shameless advantage of their parents. I wouldn't go so far
as to say they were all deadbeats, but I still think it's
inappropriate behavior to make choices to have a lifestyle
that depends on your parents pitching in to do what you
should be doing for your own family. I don't think it's
all that uncommon. In fact, it seems to be quite a bit of
a trend, between "boomerang children" and grandparents caring
for grandchildren and so on. (There are times when those
things are legitimate or truly by the parent/grandparent's
choice, but often it's about a parent/grandparent stepping
in because they can't bear the alternative for their child/
grandchild after poor choices have been made.)

People who never make poor choices aren't human. Parents who don't
want to help their children after they've made poor choices are cold.
Children who accept the help gratefully and try to pay back the parent
are mature adults. Parents who lead their children to expect that all
their chestnuts will be pulled out of the fire are unwise. Children
who expect that their parents will always step in are mooches and
immature. Probably but not always because of unwise choices on the
part of the parents - who are just human.

Best wishes,
Ericka
.

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