Re: Tips on handling situations?

"toypup" (toypup@xxxxxxxxxxxxx) writes:
In that case, *everything* would be in the "never take away" category. If
it isn't fun and is in the "can take away" category, then it's not worth
taking away, because taking away something that's not any fun is a sort of
reward.

No, I don't mean don't take away anything that's fun.
To me, a balloon isn't just a fun toy like other toys.
Rather, it's more symbolic, like a greeting card.
It isn't just that it's fun to play with; it signifies fun
and special occasions and perhaps a cherished status
of the recipient, even if it isn't actually played with.

A balloon may mean different things to different people.
A child won't necessarily think of it the same way as
an adult.

At any rate, I don't agree that taking something away removes the nice
feelings that go with it. I've gone home early from Disneyland for poor
behavior on a number of occasions. That is taking away the Disneyland trip,
or at least part of a trip. Anyway, it has worked, and I don't see any
negative associations with Disneyland. On the contrary, DS wants to go
there more than ever.

Using something as a reward often increases the desire for
it.

But if the whole point of the thing was
to give good feelings of "I'm special;
my mother loves me no matter what", then
those feelings can certainly be spoiled
by making it conditional.

I had said:
A greeting card is also a thing, but it wouldn't be a good
idea to say "If you sit quietly today, maybe on your
birthday I'll give you a big, colourful birthday card."
To me, balloons are similar to birthday cards.

No. I would never say that to my child. I would never say, "If you sit
quietly, maybe I'll give you a balloon," either. I would give them a
balloon just because.

I don't quite follow. You treat balloons differently
from bedtime stories? That's fine, and is rather similar
to what I'm talking about.

However, if they are throwing tantrums, I am not
going out of my way to go get a balloon. That's totally different from your
scenario.

If the child has money saved up and can afford the cost
of the balloon, I would assist them in buying it, perhaps
waiting for them to calm down first. (In the original
scenario, they were already at the place with the balloons.
No need to walk to the corner store, which I might or
might not do depending on time constraints.)

Taking away bedtime stories could be effective, but at
the same time it's also taking away a way of showing love,
affection and togetherness, and taking away what could
be a routine the child could count on.

To me, things are things -- a balloon is a balloon, a story is a story.
Everything and every action is not symbolic of something deeper.

To me, actions are symbolic of something deeper. To children
they are, too. They show how much the parent does or does
not love the child. They set precedents for the future.
Kids fight over little actions from the parents because
they symbolize the relative status of the children in
the family.

It's also modelling punitive behaviour. When the parent uses
logic like "you behaved badly, so no bedtime story,"

This sounds more retaliatory. Maybe that is your interpretation of
punishment. Parents should not retaliate. However, if a parent tells a
child they must do X or no bedtime story, then they may follow through. It
is not then considered retaliatory, since the child knew the consequences
and chose the that path.

Would you call it retaliatory if a parent says "you must do X
or no bedtime story," and later says "you didn't do X, so no
bedtime story"? I don't think you would call that retaliatory.
But a child could easily imitate it with behaviour you
would call retaliatory: "you didn't buy me a balloon, so
no getting into the car nicely."

I'm not sure how having some things that are "never taken away no matter
what" makes a child better behaved.

I think it does in several ways.

1. The child feels more secure, so feels less need to take desperate
measures such as having tantrums.

2. Consequences are more predictable and easier for the
child to keep track of, since there are fewer of them.

3. There's a limit to the amount of punishment, so it
provides a buffer that can save parent and child from
an endless loop of mutual punishment.

4. The child might imitate the parent's behaviour by
having some good behaviours the child never stops no
matter how angry at the parent the child is.


.

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