Re: Sleep and older children


Ericka Kammerer wrote:

That, and I also believe in the responsible
exercise of passion ;-) DH may have a passion for WoW,
but he still has to exercise it responsibly in the
context of his family obligations ;-) So, a HS kid
with a passion should, in my opinion, be encouraged
and supported, but *also* expected to still make
reasonable contributions to the family. They can
and should be negotiated as appropriate to the
situation, but they must still exist. When I
see something like the kid who wants to be a professional
gymnast and her needs have turned the entire family
upside down to make that happen, I really feel a
lot of sadness at that situation. There often
isn't much that can be done. A passion that big
has a price, but it is a terrible, terrible price
for the family in many cases.

Yes, I would encourage balance. But I really can't say where that would
be - it all depends.

The gymnastics one is a good example: at an early age DD11 took
gymnastics and they felt she had olympic potential (just the right body
build; the right discipline; the right determination, etc, etc). They
wanted me to sign her up for daily gymnastics - I think she was 6 years
old?? I nixed that idea immediately!! No regrets, because while she
certainly enjoyed gymastics, a 6 year old just can't know what her
passion is, and understand how following it that early would affect the
rest of her life for years to come.


Or even if you're as involved as possible, it
still really feels like everyone rallying around someone
else's activity, and there certainly isn't much family
interaction going on. It's like dance for us. It takes
a lot of time, and we work hard to limit its impact on
family time, but it's not really family time. If the
only time we spent together was in supporting assorted
people's activities, I wouldn't feel like we had much
of a family life.

It would be like me dragging my family to business dinners. Hey, my job
might be my passion, but that would be going overboard. But if I was
winning a business award, different subject. I'd want my family there.


It's sort of like going to the movies
with someone. It's not the most interactive experience
(unless you can count the time getting there, having
dinner before or after, or something like that). You're
just sitting next to each other watching the movie.
It's not like you're really interacting with each other.
Not that I've got anything against movies--they have
their time and place. I just don't think going out
to the movies is a real relationship builder ;-)

Well, yes and no. DH is very big into doing things together - he's
quite active and always finding fun things to do. This is what I'm
learning: those shared experiences make great fodder for the intimate
conversations later!! For example if we go to a movie, we can
deconstruct it for hours later... what did it mean to him, what did it
mean to me, etc. And then you always have those "this reminds me of the
time we... " memories.


I don't know about that. Sure, they were doing
something fun themselves, but *they* weren't getting any
family time either.

Well, you do always hear "your children will remember forever that you
were there on the sidelines cheering them on." Motherly guilt, knowing
I was miserable and bored most of the time. And there were times when I
looked away for a minute, and missed their getting a goal... because I
don't understand the game so I wasn't following along enough to know
they might have a shot! They've forgiven me though. :-)


I'm a little surprised at the
undercurrent to this discussion that kids only participate
in family time under duress, and would prefer to have
their own "stuff" and parents ought to catch *their*
"family time" as they can in the interstices.

I think it's more teens that do this, than kids. But, I don't see my
kids - even my teen - feeling under duress. At least not yet!

We negotiate, like we did this weekend: she had just spent a whole week
away from her friends. She wanted to see them. I hadn't seen her for a
week. But, I did understand her wanting to see her friends after an
entire week away with no cell phone, because I remember being a teen
myself. So we compromised, she had lunch with me, then I sent her off
to play with her friends with my blessings.


If the
kids aren't enjoying family time, you aren't doing it
right! (Or at least, if they aren't enjoying it a
significant part of the time--there'll always be
times when a family will do some things that not everyone
enjoys.)

Yeah, I agree with this too. We do a lot of fun things together.


I think there are two different issues here.
One is whether you want your "family time" to be deep,
intimate conversations and such or something more
active. I think that's a style issue.

Well, don't get me wrong, I don't think every conversation *has* to be
deep and intimate. I'm just saying that I enjoy conversation. I would
rather sit around on the sofa, making stupid jokes and giggling with my
kids, than fold laundry side by side together, or go on a family bike
hike.


Some people
will bond in one way and some in another and some
families have to accommodate mixed styles. But
the key is that there is still *interaction*.

Yes. I think for me the key is that I want to see their faces. For
example, you can talk while folding laundry side by side, but then I
don't see their faces. That's why I really like sharing meals together,
because we are sitting face-to-face. In restaurants I deliberately sit
across from my children, instead of next to them, for just this reason.
Try it yourself - I've learned that the dynamic is just different. You
feel so much more connected.

(Incidentally, it's not just dinners with the kids; when the kids are
with their dad, DH and I make it a priority to always have dinner
together ourselves. And, we make sure we are sitting across from each
other - I do believe it makes a difference in the interaction, no
matter what you are saying or not saying.)


The
other issue is witnessing someone else's activity
versus interacting with them. Playing soccer with
someone is not the same as watching someone play
soccer.

Agreed. I'd have much preferred to play soccer with them - and that's
saying a lot, because I hate soccer. :-)

The former can be significant family time,
even without the intimate face-to-face thing you
enjoy, but that latter doesn't involve family
*inter*action. Same with chores. Cooking together
can be family time if it's done mindfully in that
way, or it can be just another chore with little
interaction.

Agreed. I like it when the girls help me cook. They do from time to
time, or at least one of them will be in the kitchen keeping me
company.


Hey, I did say I was naturally a night owl, didn't
I? ;-) And I really do believe that the light from
computer screens (and tvs, but that's not really an
issue at our house) *does* reset your clock. When I
said I had to make compromises to accommodate the
kids' activities, one of the things is that I generally
do my work when they are away or sleeping. I can
usually get some time in during the toddler's nap
and while the boys are at school, but I usually have
a chunk left to do at night after they've gone to
bed. If I don't work on the computer, I can just
wind down and I'll be nice and sleep by 10 or 11pm
at the latest. If I work, between the stimulation
of the work and the screen light, I get that "second
wind" and then it can be harder to settle down.

Unfortunately, there was no Law & Order on last night, so I stayed on
the 'puter. :-)

We watch little t.v., but L&O is a nightly habit. I know what they say
about watching t.v. in your bed, but the t.v. has proven to be my best
sleep aid! I just turn it on, set the snooze function, and I'm nearly
always out like a light before the show is over. It somehow helps me
turn my brain off.

jen

.

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