Re: Sleep and older children


dragonlady wrote:
Actually, even at younger ages, "mandated" family time in which the
child does not wish to participate can be pretty miserable for everyone!
That was a hard one to work out. I know my mother quit making my
youngest brother come to extended family events when he was pretty
young, because he was miserable and made everyone around him miserable.
On the other hand, he outgrew that, and now enjoys time with all of us.

Thinking back to my own childhood, that sounds just like my older
brother. He had this way of walking out the door mumbling "be back by
11 pm" before my mom could get a word in edgewise.

I've read that boys tend to do this as teens: escape the family to do
their own thing with friends. Whereas female teens are more apt to
engage more with family, although often that may mean engaging in
endless battles for independence from their parents. It's like they
don't want to be there, but yet they aren't doing the Houdini escape
routine the first chance they can get like their brothers.

However, I agree that there will be a gradual change in how much time
the child spends with his or her parents -- that's just the way it has
to be, unless you expect the kid to suddenly be able to manage their own
time the day they leave the house (or live in your house forever...).

Exactly.

Yes -- they get jobs and have other activities that take place during
what used to be family time. Gradually, peers become incredibly
important, and that is appropriate -- there is a gradual withdrawal from
the intensity of family life that was appropriate when they were 8 or so.

DD13, up until about two years ago, had few friends (particularly
compared to her sister). I am heartened to see her growing into a
social life with kids her own age. It is a big change for her.

They say from 13 onward peers have more impact shaping a person than
parents do. I'm glad both kids have nice friends.

I can remember visiting home when my sister was 14 -- she was home for
dinner, but then out. At first, I was a little hurt because she didn't
want to spend time with me. (I was living 400 miles away, so visits
home were not even once a month.) Mom said, "Be real -- when YOU were
14, which would you rather spend time with: some 32 yo geezer, or kids
your own age?" I realized she was right -- at that age, peers are
ascendant, and that's normal and there's nothing wrong with it. She
often broght bunches of her friends home (as did we all). She didn't
dislike us -- she was just living in teen-land.

Yep, my parents coped by having an open door policy. We were always
allowed to have our friends over, and because they weren't constantly
in our face nosing into our business, we took them up on that often.
They would also be sure to allow us to bring along a friend to any
event or even sometimes on family vacations. I am continuing the same
strategy with my own kids.

Yes, it is appropriate to expect a certain amount of time spent with the
rest of the family. When it became an issue here, I just told my kids I
wasn't running a boarding house -- if they wanted to live here, they HAD
to actually spend some time with the rest of us. The one thing that was
never optional was dinner time: if they were home, they were expected
to sit at the table with us. And, until they were older (like 17), I
expected them to be home unless they had a good reason not to be (eating
at a friend's house, working, study group, practice, whatever.)

Yep, growing up, dinner time was sancrosanct, and this is our house
rule today too.

Alas, today I am nearly living alone: DH has already moved to North
Carolina (I follow in about a month), DS is in school in Iowa, DD1 lives
a few miles away, though I see her at least once a week, and DD2's work
schedule has her out of the house most evenings. On those extremely
rare occassions when there's more than just me for dinner, I tend to
break out the good dishes and light candles -- and my kids seem to
appreciate it.

In another month, four of us will be living in North Carolina, and I
suspect it will be a little bit before we establish our own friendships
and independance from each other -- I'm looking forward to regular
family dinners again, but know that it is likely to be short lived.
(DD1 will be renting an in-law apartment in the house we're buying, and
hopes to transfer to a job with the same company there; she may or may
not join us for dinner most nights -- we'll have to see how that plays
out. I suspect she will for the first week or so. DD2 will still be
living with us, but will be looking for work and figuring out how to
start at a community college in the area. Given their ages and the
sorts of jobs they have/will have, there will still be many times when
they won't be home for dinner.)

I must've missed the follow-up: so they are coming to NC with you?
Sounds like it's all working out!


That sounds familiar -- LOTS of time in the car driving them places and
supporting their activities. For the most part, with the exception of
my eldest, the kids seemed to enjoy being with us enough so that it
wasn't a big problem. And my eldest is now coming around in a different
way -- when she's not working in the evening, and doesn't have homework
to do, she may come over here to play cards with me, or even just watch
a TV.

TBH, while my mom may have a different recollection, I don't remember
my parents driving us around all that much. However, I DO remember my
older brother and sister driving me around before I had my own license.


Which brings me to another thing: my fondest family memories from the
teen years fall into two categories:

1) Parents dragging us all to camping trips or on long road trips where
we were forced to spend time together for a week or two out of the
year. Yeah, we all grumbled, but it really was fun and I do have
wonderful memories from those vacations.

2) Parents being fast asleep, and the three of us kids hanging out in
the den watching t.v. together until the wee hours. Saturday Night
Live, Monty Python, and MTV. IMO, this counts as family time, even
though it didn't include my parents!!!

Sue, with an 8 and 11 yo as your oldest, you haven't yet embarked on the
teen years. You may find your opinions changing over the next few years
as your kids start to work out their independance from you in their own
ways.

I expect so too - as I've said, there's a huge difference between my 11
y.o. and my 13 y.o. I expect to see the same changes with my 11 y.o. in
this next year or so.

jen

.

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