Re: Homework for a 5 year old - how much involvement needed.

In article <HtKdnbXsEZkL3eveRVn-sg@xxxxxxxxxxxx>, bizby40 says...
>
>
>>
>> He *got* the math concepts. He *demonstrated* the math concepts. With
>> the
>> symbols developed for *math*. But, noooo, it isn't about learning math,
>> it was
>> about learning math *verbally*. Taking MORE time, dinging him AGAIN for
>> weakness in an unrelated area, giving him *nowhere to shine*, and
>> basically
>> making him dislike school.
>
>I can see that you are frustrated on behalf of your son, and I don't
>blame you. My 5th grader is very verbal, my 2nd grader is not, and
>so I may share some of the same frustrations in the coming years.
>
>Again; however, my experience has been different from yours. Yes,
>there is some writing to be done for every subject. But at our school,
>the math or social studies writing is not dinged for spelling. I gave
>an example of my son's writing in another post. The teacher didn't
>even correct the spelling, much less mark down for it.

At our school he was.

>
>My children do still get home math worksheets with rows of problems.
>They also get some worksheets that have them practicing grouping or
>pattern recognition and so forth. And yes, sometimes they do want to
>know how the kid arrived at the answer. And my son usually writes
>something like "I knew that 5 + 5 = 10 and there were two more."
>No one has ever told him that his answer was wrong. I don't see a
>problem with writing, "I memorized my addition facts up to 12" if that's
>how the child got the answer. The teachers will do the same thing in
>class. They ask the child who answered to show how they got the
>answer. Then they'll ask the other kids, "You see how he did that?"
>and the next question is usually, "Who did it a different way?" I
>really just don't see how it is wrong to offer children different ways
>to solve a problem.

But still, you're talking about different was to VERBALIZE the arimetic
solution. Not SOLVING it - VERBALIZING how the solution was reached.

I really think verbally-oriented people don't understand this. In grad school I
would solve simple crystallography problems by *visualizing* it. If I had to
show anything on a test, I'd draw a picture. If I were to *verbalize* it, I'd
have to painfully describe a 3-D picture, most probably having to beg the whole
exercise by referring to the principle I was to solve.

When a kid like my son knows the answer to a math problem, it's because he
*knows*. IF kids are coming up with redundant answers that say "it is so
because it is so", then there's something very redundant about their being asked
to express it that way. And thereby excrutiatingly frustrating.

>
>>>No, you don't know that was the only point of the assignment. It
>>>was an assignment that had them working on spelling, creativity,
>>>and sentence structure all at one time. If Penny's daughter has
>>>trouble in creative writing, it might be a good thing if she got small
>>>doses of it in other parts of her homework.
>>
>> It's not practice in creative writing if it's constrained to the needs of
>> spelling drill.
>
>Why not? It's just being creative within certain parameters.

But *why*. In general, in teaching something, you wouldn't immediately require
that someone perform within constraints and make it therefore more challenging.
If you're really teaching creativity, it would be something that gave
opportunity for creation, not restricting it.

It's like saying you're teaching kids to throw basketballs into baskets by
making them pitch softballs overhand to a small circle 10 yards away. I don't
buy at all that this is really about creativity. That's an *afterthought*
explanation IMO.

Someone offered it was for meaning, vocabulary. That makes a little more sense.
But it still doesn't help the *spelling*.

>>
>> That's what they SAY. It's "integrated".
>>
>> But it's not. It's verbal.
>>
>> Case in point. My son loves to build. Model-building is his hobby and
>> strong
>> point. It uses MATH. It relates to HISTORY.
>>
>> So, do the teachers assign models be built at home? RARELY. And when
>> they do
>> (the big example in New York State being the 4th grade Iroqois longhouse),
>> it's
>> either:
>> 1. A GROUP project because it's "hard"
>> 2. Non-building alternatives are offered because it's "hard"
>>
>> Little flower-dotted-i's Suzy who just hates to build? Well, SHE can
>> bring in a
>> mock up Iroqois artefact. Anything. Painted drumstick.
>>
>> Nothing about how building that longhouse can give little Suzy a chance to
>> make
>> obserations about scale and proportion. Nothing about how it would build
>> the
>> spatial skills that she may need to work on - no, she can paint a little
>> stick
>> because they don't want to rely on those gear-headed skills the verbal
>> kids may
>> find HARD.
>>
>> With the exception of the longhouse (which is still in my attic, a
>> beautiful
>> piece which he built with no help except for shopping and our getting
>> cattail
>> reeds together), ALL the projects that had any building were group
>> projects. So
>> MY kid did the building, THREE kids would get high praises and credit.
>>
>> Would that little flower-dotted-i's Suzy have to build a little model
>> every week
>> by herself, but THREE kids be able to get together on an expository
>> composition
>> because for kids like my son it's HARD.
>
>Schools focus on reading and writing because they consider those to be the
>most important basic skills. Face it, there are many careers which never
>involve building models of any kind, yet almost none that do not require
>good reading and writing skills. I'm very sorry that your son has been
>made to feel like a failure, but I consider that a failure of your school,
>rather than a failure of the integrated teaching method.

Face it, many careers would never happen if spatial and mathematical skills
aren't fostered. You woulnd't be reading this on your computer screen.

The integrated teaching method that I see does not integrate those skills. And
when would it ever, if those in education are to dismiss them as "many careers
never involve building models of any kind.."

Banty

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