Re: Come to Pappa AAPL

VegasNightOwl wrote on 11/16/11 7:38 PM:


"Lubow" <dynamitemike@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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"VegasNightOwl" <joshuatreescorpion@xxxxxxx> wrote in message
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Linux, on the other hand, is an open system. At any time a user can
obtain the source code and look for exploits. That's what a network of
hundreds of people around the world do. If an exploit is found, it is
reported and subsequently remediated. And that's why Linux -- not OSX,
not Windows -- is the safest, and most dependable operating system out
there.

I've often wondered about open systems and security. If they're open,
they've already been breached. So anything can be lurking in there and
seems harmless. Linux appears to be a good system but have never loaded
it or tried it on my computers. Linux is a form of Unix which is exactly
what the Mac OSX for all of its platforms is. Like I stated before.
When Apple bought NeXT and returned Jobs to the head of the company the
OS came with him and it was applied to the iMac in the late 90's. It
was the first time a high level programming language was implimented on a
so-called PC.

Stability of an OS comes from the code being able to be executed without
conflicts or errors and being able to perform multiple functions in the
foreground as well as the background. I recall years ago blue screens of
death on Windows while the computer was idle, not doing a thing since no
program(s) were running.

Most of your high level computer languages fail in this situation and
only low level computer languages are the true winners. Then again, who
in the general plug and play public is going to code machine language,
assembly language or Forth language to be user friendly? The only high
level progamming language applicable is Unix. Again which spun off to
Linux, Debian, Ubuntu, etc., as well as what is OSX.



VegasNightOwl

Sorry Owl, but you have it all wrong. First, you are confusing "language"
for "operating system."

Second, OSX is derived from an open source version of UNIX called BSD
which preceded Linux by a few years which sort of fitted Jobs' mindset.
When the world went to 2MB floppies, Apple went to 1MB floppies. When the
world went to the 8080 instruction set, Apple went with the 6502. It took
decades for Jobs to admit to his stockholders that he should have
conformed to the Intel semi-standard. Finally, as the world is
gravitating to Linux, Jobs gravitated to BSD.

BSD is a very good OS. It is reported to be very secure but it does not
have the network of support that Linux has. BSD is partially owned by the
California University System while Linux is not owned by anyone, although
Linus Torvalds owns the name and personally approves of every new version
and release of the kernel.

Third, your comment "anything can be lurking in there" is rather insulting
to the hundreds -- perhaps thousands -- of volunteers who go through the
Linux kernel looking for crap. Your comment is more appropriate to paid
disgruntled programmers working at MSFT or AAPL. In fact when parts of
the Windows source was made public, your "anything can be lurking in
there" was exactly what was found. If you know of something lurking in
Linux, here's your opportunity to tell us about it. Right here, right
now.

Fourth, open or closed OS, they all can be "breached" (to use your term).
When the prize is 90% of all computers on earth, there is plenty incentive
to "breach" Windows and a lot less incentive looking for OSX or Linux
exploits. Since open sourced Linux and the open sourced Apache web server
are disproportionately running the world wide web in relation to their
overall market shares, Linux could potentially be a target for internet
terrorists, but it just does not happen.

It does not happen because it is an open system and it gets updated every
couple of months if there is even a remote possibility of an exploit. Look
at it from the point of view of Apple or Microsoft. Do they make money by
updating the software? The answer is "No" because updating software is a
cost center.

In the Linux world it's different. The users have access to the source
code. It's in the users' interest to examine the source looking for
exploits. When an exploit is discovered, it is reported and remediated.



There is no confusion on my part between OS's and languages. All OS's have
to be written in a "language" for the computer to execute the program so it
can perform its functions and tasks. The lowest form of "language" for a
computer to use is "machine language" and "assembly language", hence the
term "low level computer language". All other languages are deemed "high
level computer languages" because their structure is written so that it is
understandable for a human to read and interpret. This also adds another
step to the language writing process called compiling in which the high
level program language is reduced to its basic to find errors and alert the
programmer of them so they can be corrected then the computer can understand
it.

OSX was derived from a UNIX kernel back in the mid to late 80's when Jobs
created the NeXT Computer company and used the OS on his systems. Again,
when Apple bought NeXT in 1997, which included bringing Jobs back, the OS
came with him and it was added to the iMac. The iMac was the first PC to
use Unix for its OS. Microsoft was using C.

BSD, or more commonly known as FreeBSD now, did not originate until 1993
which was maintained by the users of the 386BSD OS. Remember, NeXT was
using Unix in the late 80's long before BSD was widely available, not only
to the general public but for commercial use as well. Many commercial users
at that time shunned such software and usually stuck to the commercial
venders, IBM, Oracle, etc. for their sofware needs. It would be about the
late 90's before coporations started to see the differences in such software
structure and start implementing them into their systems.

As for "languages" for OS's let's take a look. All Microsoft Windows OS
from 93 up to XP has been in C kernel, C+ and C++. However, Windows 7 is
C++ and includes some assembly language. The assembly language is
implemented for accessing certain parts of the processor to garner faster
application processing. Interesting.

I don't use Linux so I don't know what's "lurking around in there".
However, being around some who I used to work with in the IT field did use
it and liked to tweak it with some interesting applications. I just avoided
it. I am not saying it's a bad program or anything, it's just that I'm not
comfortable with it. Period. Now, whether or not these poeple released the
"improvement's" to the OS for general use, I can't tell you since it's been
years ago. I just thought it was inappropriate even if their are safety
nets in place to catch and prevent such events. Sorry, it's just a
professional thing. You get what you pay for.

Updating an OS from either Apple or Microsoft is of course free. It's like
getting a warranty with your car or any other item and they can warranty it
for as long as they would like and mainly due to the fact that it was said
they would support it to a certain date. Speaking of which, Microsoft will
now support XP until 2014. That's mainly due to the fact that people are
not comfortable with their new OS's and staying with the most stable they've
offered in years....XP. Back in the early days of Apple Jobs wanted a 1
year warranty. The board was out of its mind because most everything then
was 90 days. They relented and Jobs got the 1 year warranty and people were
happy.

I'm sure people like working with Linux and FreeBSD and they try to keep
track of any problems in the OS so they can be removed. However, like
anything else, you can't please everybody.



VegasNightOwl


Congrats on a very well written article(I got lost when they stopped using
vacuum tubes) but hopefully still picked up a bit of knowledge......
It's a real pleasure to finally read something in MIS which can be of use to
somebody as opposed to the constant lunatic ramblings of our
"Headcases".....

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Come to Pappa AAPL
    ... Linux, on the other hand, is an open system. ... When Apple bought NeXT and returned Jobs to the head of the company the ... was the first time a high level programming language was implimented on ... only low level computer languages are the true winners. ...
    (misc.invest.stocks)
  • Re: Come to Pappa AAPL
    ... And that's why Linux -- not OSX, not Windows -- is the safest, and most dependable operating system out there. ... Most of your high level computer languages fail in this situation and only low level computer languages are the true winners. ... Then again, who in the general plug and play public is going to code machine language, assembly language or Forth language to be user friendly? ... The users have access to the source code. ...
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  • Re: Come to Pappa AAPL
    ... Linux, on the other hand, is an open system. ... When Apple bought NeXT and returned Jobs to the head of the company the ... only low level computer languages are the true winners. ... in the general plug and play public is going to code machine language, ...
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