Re: Breast Cancer - Alternative therapy-Mexico update

On Tue, 8 Apr 2008 11:57:54 -0700 (PDT), Citizen Jimserac
<Jimserac@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Apr 8, 2:18 pm, Martin <idnontwan...@xxxxxxxx> wrote:


But I don't find your view that in most cases surgery alone is
insufficient to cure breastcancer incorrect. But you keep acting like
I do, even after I told you so several times. If someone is that
dense, no amount of logic is going to work. Ridicule and insult are
the only appropriate response.

OK OK, relax will you, there are times when I have
too much stuff going on and probably assumed you
meant something without reading carefully.

I'm relaxed.

Here, try this to relax:

Why did the amnesiac not do well with his Homeopathy remedy?

Answer: He forgot to take it and died of an overdose!

There must be better ways and people are flocking
to alternative medicine in the hope of finding those
ways.

yes, they hope to cure a horrible disease with an easy cure. I wish it
were possible, but right now, it isn't.

Yes, it isn't, true, at least for most but that should not
stop us from looking.

Absolutely not. But just look at the progress in scientific medicine.
Just look at modern breast cancer surgery and the old surgery. Look at
targeted radiation therapy, with much less side effects than how it
used to be etc. And compare that to the 'progress' of alt-med.

You can deny people choice and insist
that they undergo the "standard" torture... er treatment,

No no no no no, and a thousand times more no. I insist that the
purveyors of those magical cancer cures either prove it works or stop
lying. If they honestly tell people that they can take their stuff for
their cancer, but that research has shown it doesn't work, that there
is zero reason to even think it works and that it hasn't yet cured
anybody, then I am perfectly ok with it.

Well that's fine with me, a perfectly reasonable viewpoint.

My problem is that I am having an inordinate amount
of trouble trying to find out one way or the other
what works and what does not and both in standard
medicine and in alternative stuff it is not
always easy to find this out.

I'm assuming you are healthy. Can you imagine how to do this when you
are not? When you have a disease like, say, cancer, you can not shop
around to try different approaches like you can shop around for new
sneakers. You'll be dead soon. That's why we need proven therapies,
not some claptrap that only has anecdotes as support.

In standard medicine, they have evolved what seems to be
some pretty reasonable and rigorous testing procedures
even before they get to human trials. I'm not
at all sure these testing procedures are appropriate
or fully applicable for alternative medicine.

They are. The reason the alt-med folks say they are not is because
their remedies always come up negative when properly tested. And note
that whenever a scientific study seems to show a positive effect for
their wares, they never ever denounce such studies because science
does not apply. The inconsistency is very revealing.

I'm still researching on this. There is a Greek Homeopathy
doctor who seems to be far more scientific
than the "modernists", he finds the Benveniste results
worthless and does not think much of the water
memory idea either.

Ah, the Greeks. The Greek homeopaths had recently agreed on an
acceptable scientific test protocol for homeopathy. That is, one that
is properly blinded and takes into account the individual approach of
homeopathy. But alas, they reconsidered and backed out. I think the
reason is that they just know homeopathy doesn't work and the test was
going to show just that. And a test that agreed on was a fair and
proper test of homeopathy! Just ask yourself why they would back out
of a testprotocol they helped set up and they agreed that was fair and
proper.

We must accept that, just like the mysterious electron
slit experiment which remains unsolved in quantum mechanics,
the human body and human life still contain a huge
number of unknowns about which we know nothing
and quite possibly do not even know of the existence
of unknowns. So more research, AND openmindedness,
is needed by everyone.

With the double slit experiment there are observable testresults that
have no explanation as of yet. With homeopathy there are no results
that need explaining.

OR you can join me in seeking those alternative
systems which show progress, may work or do work
and those that do not.

There aren't any. The only thing that has recently shown some promise
is DCA, and that ain´t alt/med.

To blindly deny efficacy of ALL alternative medicine
is to block progress. Don't you think when a non-standard
procedure becomes validated that standard medicine
will embrace it quickly. Look at Vitamin C supplements -
once dismissed as nonsense by standard medical
doctors 30 years ago but gradually they came to
agree on its value. I think good doctors of all
systems of medicine are motivated by a desire
to help their patients get better. Right now
surgery and chemotherapy are about all that
standard medicine has to offer. I think there
might be alternatives out there. To find out,
we must look. I repeat, we MUST look.

We must look to things that show some plausibility. Some guy picking
random herbs from his pasture because he thinks it cured his horse´s
cancer and that it will do the same in humans is not something that
shows plausibility.

Yes, dammit, exactly, but we'd be fools not to pursue
research on did the horse really have cancer and, if so,
then why he was cured... and if not, what did the horse
have and did the herb have something to do with it getting better.

Citizen Jimserac

It's been looked at. That's the whole point. Hoxsey doesn't do a
thing. Leatrile has been looked at. Not only does it not cure cancer,
it's even dangerous. And so on. But none of the alt-med folks stop
claiming it works.
Also, we have limited resources for research. What we use those for?
Some guy who knows nothing about cancer who claims he cured his horse
from cancer and therefor, he can cure humans as well, or a team of
scientists, who have a plausible biological mechanism for a remedy,
have done some basic in vitro and in vivo tests that came out positive
and whose ideas are based on existing knowledge.
Take your pick.
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Breast Cancer - Alternative therapy-Mexico update
    ... Why did the amnesiac not do well with his Homeopathy remedy? ... >to alternative medicine in the hope of finding those ... they hope to cure a horrible disease with an easy cure. ... Just look at modern breast cancer surgery and the old surgery. ...
    (misc.health.alternative)
  • Re: Breast Cancer - Alternative therapy-Mexico update
    ... to alternative medicine in the hope of finding those ... they hope to cure a horrible disease with an easy cure. ... that they undergo the "standard" torture... ... purveyors of those magical cancer cures either prove it works or stop ...
    (misc.health.alternative)
  • Re: Homeopathy again (resubnission with subject)
    ... or cancer "surgery" or examples of medical ... As the research supportive of Homeopathy keeps appearing, ... death rate in hospitals from standard medical errors, ... Dare to deviate from Doctor's one true medicine and evil will ...
    (misc.health.alternative)
  • Re: Many Unfavorable Drug Studies Arent Published
    ... Maybe because medicine is based upon lies and deceit. ... Why not talk about something worthwhile, like cancer?. ... If you want to know what looking at the *original data* tells us about the Gerson claim that the same diet can cure cancer then I refer you to my web site. ... over 10 papers. ...
    (misc.health.alternative)
  • Re: LIES
    ... important function of medicine. ... and can almost never cure disease. ... PM "Allopathy" is a word coined by Hahnneman to refer to medicine that is not homeopathy i.e. "like cures like", so it includes all of alternative medicine that is not homeopathic. ... Which diseases have been found to be caused by what, ...
    (misc.health.alternative)