Re: Another study shows supplements don't fulfil commmon claims

On Mar 5, 4:03 pm, "Peter Moran" <pmo...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
"CitizenJimserac" <Jimse...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message

news:9ea3a654-f2ec-475b-a508-4f66f3b1ce12@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

On Mar 4, 3:41 pm, "Peter Moran" <pmo...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

The point is that alternative medical methods *habitually* fail to work
better than...

First of all, you have reiterated an unscientific statement
that the alternative medicines "habitually" fail to work.

Don't misquote me. I said "don't work better than placebo".

My error, apologies!


I'm sorry Peter but they all would have gone out of business
long ago if that were true.

No they wouldn't have, because it has been proved many times over that
methods that work only as placebo (i.e. lack intrinsic medical activity)

And herein lies the crux of my objection
to your persistent repetition of these fallacies.

"Placebo" is not an explanation, it is a vague
reference to "feel goodism", it is "PIXIE DUST".

induce sincere trust as treatment for certain conditions. And some of the
imputed benefits are probably genuine.

WELL THANK YOU!

These are conditions that tend to
fluctuate or resolve spontaneously and those where placebo responses are
seen in clinical trials.

Well even intense pain tends to fluctuate from bad to
worse and back again, what in the hell kind of
explanation is this supposed to be??? The weather
fluctuates too. And to IMPUGN ALL of alternative
medicine with this... this BULL*** rationalization
is insulting to everyone's intelligence.

The science behind this is thorough and robust. It is completely
explanatory of the phenomenon of alternaitve medicine, as well as the
bizarre treatment methods used by different cultures throughout medical
history.

You are correct that the fact that so many people believe that they work
means that they wil probably continue to be popular. But you cannot deduce
the reverse.

A great many people "feel good" after
alternative medicine treatments
AND after standard medicine treatments -
a great many DO NOT, some
"fee" better after treatments
with one of them but not vice
versa.

To stand there and keep feeding us this PAP as an explanation
of all alternative medicine is, I repeat, an insult to
our intelligence, pro altie and anti altie alike.

If you believe it WORKS then be honest and admit it,
and if you believe it is NONSENSE than espouse that.

To claim it is all NONSENSE but then explain away
the statisfactory results obtained by people with the
"PLACEBO" ploy is a cop out. WE COULD as well
insult ALL of standard medicine by claiming that
THEIR treatments were really ONLY placebo.

I will reiterate, there are people who have
real illnesses who suffered mightly,
became MORE ILL and /or got NO RESULTS from
standard medicine who then tried Homeopathy,
Chiropractic, Osteopathy, Acupuncture, Herbs,
Chinese Patent Medicine formulas and other
alternative modalities and obtained
cures, relief, amelioration, reduction or
elimination of pain and other obvious
BENEFICIAL CURATIVE EFFECTS which
CAN be objectively defined by whatever
standards you choose and which are
OBJECTIVELY verified by official research.

I have already pointed out to you
sources of information with objective
research results, such as one particular
site www.medicalacupuncture.org
which clearly demonstrates this.

Instead, like Peter Bowditch's position
on the research published in perfectly
valid Homeopathic Journals
by well qualified and well credentialed
researchers, many of them often
also M.D.'s, such as Dr.
Iris Bell M.D., Phd,
YOU have chosen the anti-intellectual
approach of choosing to IGNORE this
research and/or to disregard it.

If this is your opinion, then fine
but understand that in persisting
with your presuppositional
and non-objective prejudice
your are adapting the very
attitudes which your position
would purport to disdain
if adapted by the alternative
medicine proponents.

Thanks
Citizen Jimserac
.