Re: Master thesis on mercury exposure and neurodegenerative disease
- From: "Jan Drew" <jdrew1374@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 06:51:36 GMT
"Kevysmom" <bluebunny8@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:1194811524.492067.129490@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
He wishes disabalities on to those who prove him a liar.My! what a classy fellow
Maybe he is a Pharma Attorney?
On Nov 10, 10:38 am, "t" <tool...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:"The One True Zhen Jue" <Andrew_King...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in messagenews:1194704952.497685.10060@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> On Nov 9, 9:13 pm, Kevysmom <bluebun...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> Please keep your hands off the subject line in my thread! :o)
>> On Nov 9, 6:41 pm, The One True Zhen Jue<Andrew_King...@xxxxxxxxx>
>> wrote:
>> > On Nov 9, 5:51 pm, "Yuri Kuchinsky" <y...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> > > Not many takers, are there, Donna?
>> > > Best,
>> > > Yuri.
>> > No, most of us have had an education. You'll need to push this Mass
>> > O'Feces onto a less informed group.- Hide quoted text -
>> - Show quoted text -
> Nope, I'm calling it what it is; I don't play by your delusions.
My! what a classy fellow.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Real classy!
Such as............................
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/e09f62b1b04cb4b7
Andrew Kingoff Defames Himself
Subject: Re: Andrew Kingoff defames himself
From: ils...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Cant We All JUST Love Ilsa9)
Date: 3/24/2004 3:26 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <20040324182626.27471.00000...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
So llsa admits yet again that she/he is Andrew.
Anth
Are you piss-drunk, Anth?
Poor Andrew.
All I said was that Jan sent me, and a few other MHA
regulars, picture(s) of herself. How you derive from that the notion that I
am
somebody else is pure blarney.
I sent IIsa NO picture.
Here is a post Andrew made, I guess he forgot, the post he made under his fake
name is pretty much the same.
From: andrew_king...@xxxxxxxxxxx (andrew_king...@xxxxxxxxxxx)
Subject: Re: Anxiety and Depression
Original Format
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
Date: 2001-01-31 17:20:18 PST
What a coincidence. That's exactly how Jan & I met. She also accused
me of being Aaron Fox, & accused Alarca & Polfus of being me. I think
there's a term for that, but I wouldn't want to give even the
impression that I was diagnosing anyone. ;)
From: MHA Needs More Skeptics (ils...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)
Subject: Re: Kofi Annan vs ... Mr "David Wright"
Original Format
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
Date: 2004-03-22 14:37:33 PST
Let me chime in, if I may. You see, Jan has a nasty habit (ok, she has
several) of accusing people of being other people. Case in point: Jan thinks
that I, Ilsa, am a guy named Andrew, a Licensed Acupuncturist. Jan thought
that Andrew was another guy, named Aaron Fox and before that, she thought
Andrew was here own "atheist Phd brother".
Now it's time for a another KABOOM.
From: JKingoff (jking...@xxxxxxx)
Subject: Re: Get lost, Bill
View this article only
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
Date: 2002-03-09 07:36:43 PST
In 2000, Jan also asked for a photo of me and sent me one of herself.
(I sent her one of a deceased cousin of mine, FWIW. I didn't want that
dysfunctional bundle of paranoia knowing just how radiant, handsome, and GQ I
am....well, actually, I just didn't want Jan to have a proper image of me to
fixate upon.)
To me, Jan looked EXACTLY as I expected her to. She looks angry, hostile,
disoriented, rode hard and put away wet. She claims to have had cosmetic
surgery, which if true, may explain her hatred of conventional medicine.
If you want a fair idea of what Jan looks like, take Minnie Pearl, dye her hair
auburn, and give her a cheap face lift. My apologize to Minnie Pearl for the
unfavorable comparison.
Bottom line, nobody will ever want to see Jan hiking in the nude...
========
Andrew Kingoff, poor despicable and pathetic liar.
EXPOSED!!!!!
(watch Richard H Jacobson hide behind his rock).
Jan
ilsa9w@xxxxxxxxxxxxx (Say Yes to EOM)
ilsa9w@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx (MCS Is NOT Real)
ilsa9w@xxxxxxxxxxxx (Nobody Would Ever Killfile Ilsa9)
ilsa9w@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Cant We All JUST Love Ilsa9)
ilsa9w@xxxxxxx(steaming bag of feces)
ilsa9w@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (This Alias Brought to YOU by EOM)
jkingoff@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx (TaskForce 626
jkingoff@xxxxxxx (Jan Drew Loves Dr Wilson!)
jkingoff@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Hulda Clark Got Zapped)
jkingoff@xxxxxxxxxxxxx (Dr Wilson Paging Jan Drew)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/fe57283247f4f69f
Sept 22 2002
But Andrew, you are not very good at maintaining your separate personas.
Do you remember this interchange where you forgot which account you were
posting from?
----------------- Message 22
From: Kris Brys (kris.b...@xxxxxxxxxx)
Subject: Re: why do we need homeopathy?
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
View this article only
Date: 2001-10-09 03:30:51 PST
---------------------- "Ilsa Nein" <ils...@xxxxxxxxxxx> schreef in bericht
news:20011007160718.28876.00002145@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>I can say much more than one good thing about homeopathy. Not only doDear Ilsa,
>I love the principle that less can be more but it turns out to be the
>most 'proper' treatment I have ever received. I have used it SOLELY
>for 6 years.
So, you've been taking it for 6 years and you're not cured?
how many years do you use regular medicine? how many years do you take
antibiotics. Did that cured you permanently?
If you start thinking, even a couple of seconds, you will find out that
people don't cure forever.
A good advice: read Organon of Samuel Hahnemann. When you haven't read
that
book you will not understand what homeopathy is all about. Read it and
than
ask questions.
greetings
Kris
------ Message 23 in thread
From: JKingoff (jking...@xxxxxxx)
Subject: Re: why do we need homeopathy?
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
View this article only
Date: 2001-10-09 06:08:38 PSTDear Ilsa,I haven't needed regular medicine much. I have had my vaccinations, eat
how many years do you use regular medicine?
properly, exercise, and don't take silly risks.
how many years do you takeI have taken antibiotics once. I was Rx'd a single pill.
antibiotics
. Did that cured you permanently?Well, I felt much better the following day and haven't taken one since and
that
was bout 6 years ago.
If you start thinking, even a couple of seconds, you will find out thatDuh. However, some conditions are resolved and in the absence of
people don't cure forever.
re-infection
they don't reoccur.
A good advice: read Organon of Samuel Hahnemann. When you haven't readI've read it and I've read more modern books on it. Its pure hokum and
that
book you will not understand what homeopathy is all about. Read it and
than
ask questions.
the
few
well controlled studies support that conclusion. Even the study that is
frequently posted to MHA that supposedly proves homeopathy isn't even
FAVORABLE
to homeopathy.
greetingsShow us a replicated, controlled, peer-reviewed study which show that
Kris
homeopathy is efficacious. Homeopathy was Hahnemann's way of acting-out
against "the system". It is nothing more than superstition,
pseudo-science,
and sympathetic magic.
In the 21st century, we have real medicine and don't need to cling to the
vanity of a long deceased, disaffected 18th century doctor of voodoo.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/e09f62b1b04cb4b7
Mar 24 2004
Subject: Re: Andrew Kingoff defames himself
From: ils...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Cant We All JUST Love Ilsa9)
Date: 3/24/2004 3:26 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <20040324182626.27471.00000...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
So llsa admits yet again that she/he is Andrew.
Anth
Are you piss-drunk, Anth?
Poor Andrew.
All I said was that Jan sent me, and a few other MHA
regulars, picture(s) of herself. How you derive from that the notion that I
am
somebody else is pure blarney.
I sent IIsa NO picture.
Here is a post Andrew made, I guess he forgot, the post he made under his fake
name is pretty much the same.
From: andrew_king...@xxxxxxxxxxx (andrew_king...@xxxxxxxxxxx)
Subject: Re: Anxiety and Depression
Original Format
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
Date: 2001-01-31 17:20:18 PST
What a coincidence. That's exactly how Jan & I met. She also accused
me of being Aaron Fox, & accused Alarca & Polfus of being me. I think
there's a term for that, but I wouldn't want to give even the
impression that I was diagnosing anyone. ;)
From: MHA Needs More Skeptics (ils...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)
Subject: Re: Kofi Annan vs ... Mr "David Wright"
Original Format
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
Date: 2004-03-22 14:37:33 PST
Let me chime in, if I may. You see, Jan has a nasty habit (ok, she has
several) of accusing people of being other people. Case in point: Jan thinks
that I, Ilsa, am a guy named Andrew, a Licensed Acupuncturist. Jan thought
that Andrew was another guy, named Aaron Fox and before that, she thought
Andrew was here own "atheist Phd brother".
Now it's time for a another KABOOM.
From: JKingoff (jking...@xxxxxxx)
Subject: Re: Get lost, Bill
View this article only
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
Date: 2002-03-09 07:36:43 PST
In 2000, Jan also asked for a photo of me and sent me one of herself.
(I sent her one of a deceased cousin of mine, FWIW. I didn't want that
dysfunctional bundle of paranoia knowing just how radiant, handsome, and GQ I
am....well, actually, I just didn't want Jan to have a proper image of me to
fixate upon.)
To me, Jan looked EXACTLY as I expected her to. She looks angry, hostile,
disoriented, rode hard and put away wet. She claims to have had cosmetic
surgery, which if true, may explain her hatred of conventional medicine.
If you want a fair idea of what Jan looks like, take Minnie Pearl, dye her hair
auburn, and give her a cheap face lift. My apologize to Minnie Pearl for the
unfavorable comparison.
Bottom line, nobody will ever want to see Jan hiking in the nude...
========
Andrew Kingoff, poor despicable and pathetic liar.
EXPOSED!!!!!
(watch Richard H Jacobson hide behind his rock).
Jan
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/96cb9d64d7a829b0
Now Aribert Deckers joins him.
Subject: Re: ANDREW KINGOFF DEFAMED BY Arch-Antisemite, Jan Drew!!!!!
From: wri...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (David Wright)
Date: 3/24/2004 6:30 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <Nur8c.28492$gf6.4...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
In article <20040324100339.22051.00000...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
MHA Needs More Skeptics <ils...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On 23 Mar 2004 16:50:14 GMT, ils...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (MHA Needs More
Skeptics) wrote:
Jan is a female....woman....no Y Chromosome....NOT a Dude....
Well, IF you are a skeptic, why do you believe that Jan Drew is
female?
Well, I could just say that "she" has been very consistent in her
story in all regards concerning her gender. Further, about 2 years
ago, she emailed me a picture of herself and a couple of her pets. I
have no idea why she did that, but I'm told that she has sent her
picture to a few other people including David Wright and Andrew
Kingoff. Considering her great hatred for them both, as well as
myself, I can only assume there was some malicious intent behind
revealing her, uh, "visage" (Face).
She did send me a picture, yes. I know that Aribert will not believe
any evidence we supply, of course, which is why he's in my killfile
too. (Well, that plus the fact that he posts the same crap over and
over.) I think we should start referring to Aribert as "she" until
Aribert starts referring to Jan as "she."
Jan also phoned Aaron Fox one time when Aaron was doing a night radio
show. I think we may safely assume that Aaron could tell a male from
a female voice.
Hey hey, I had forgotten that.
Hellooooooooooooooooooooooooo Happy!!!!!!
I realize that Jan is often a male name in Germany, but in the USA,
it is usually a woman's name. If for no other reason, please refer
to Jan as a woman to show solidarity with your fellow Evil Organized
Medicine mafia comrades.
Hear, hear.
Say David, nuttin to say about Andrew's LYING???????
I am all ears.
Jan
~~~~~~~~~~
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/a37edc9bdaff3e07
May 31 2003
"JKingoff" <jking...@xxxxxxx> wrote
Serioulsy, Karuna, I think you are going after the wrong person and
without sufficient cause.
Here are some of the differences:
1. JD posts under her own name.
a.h.r does not.
The one can be fairly easily held accountable.
The other cannot.
2. JD does not remove her posts from the archives afaiaa. If she ever has
done so it would be a rare exception, and has not been noted.
The other routinely removes almost all of his.
Again, the one can be held accountable for what they have posted.
The other is avoiding all accountability.
This means that for the one, any inconsistencies, errors, patterns of
posting, abusive posts, harmful posts, any biases, prejudices, particular
agendas, etc, can all be brought to light. They *are not being hidden*.
Such is not the case for the other.
3. JD's posts show that she is primarily concerned with discussing certain
aspects of alt health, consequent to her own experience *with alt health*,
and what she has read or otherwise learned irt that ('that' being, presently
and for some time, removal of dental amalgam). As she does not remove her
posts, this can be easily verified.
A.h.r has posted *primarily* to harrass, to abuse and to discredit selected
individuals. He avoids all accountability for his abusive posting by removal
of his posts from the archives.
4. JD makes no secret of the level or limits to her educational
qualifications and background.
The other does.
Again, the one is prepared to be accountable, the other not.
It means that one is able to imply superior authority to which he may
not be entitled.
It also means that *IF* he has committed harm or fraud, or has been struck
off a medical register for malpractice, eg, we cannot determine that. Given
that his posting history has revealed both an implied claim to medical
authority and a certain disregard for standards of ethics, there is that
possibility imo.
5. JD has made no secret of her support for a particular alt practitioner.
We do not know what affiliations the other poster has which may be
motivating or influencing his mha posts. Nor can this be verified, due to
his anonymous posting.
6. JD has stated that she has or has had certain specific illnesses, and is
taking medications which she has named.
A.h.r does not reveal what medications he may be on, nor what other drugs or
related substances he may be taking, nor what illnesses he may have, or have
been diagnosed with in the past. And any claims he makes regarding that
cannot be verified.
He makes repeated suggestions that certain other posters may have or have
had psychiatric problems. The question arises, Why would someone be so
fixated? IMO his posts, his posting patterns, are not those of a
psychologically healthy or balanced person. Does he have, or has he ever
been diagnosed with, certain psychiatric problems? Or has he been
recommended for such diagnosis by others IRL? We don't know. Nor can this be
verified, while JD's med history can be verified.
7. JD posts substantial content and information on alt health topics from
various sources, while continually working via her posts to establish the
fundamental basis of her particular health argument (being, that dental
amlgam is harmful to people's health). That she also posts in a way that
attacks other posters is not in dispute, but it is noted that this is often
done defensively, in response to attacks which have originated from others.
A.h.r, however, posts almost entirely TO discredit certain selected
posters, - to attack and to discredit them personally. The attacks are of
such a nature that they deter or prevent open discussion here on mha. Many
of his posts reveal, imo, malicious intent, - an intention to cause personal
harm as well as discreditment. While the same can be said about some of
JD's posts, insofar as she is posting under her own name and has her
posts there in the archives for verification, she at least is prepared to be
accountable for such, here on a discussion forum which is being so affected.
The other is not.
8. There is the question of multiple posting personas.
I have no reason whatsoever to think that JD is posting as other than
herself. I do have reason to believe that the poster a.h.r also posts as
several other posters, not least the "deb".
9. The poster has selected me for personal discreditment, and has been
posting to that end for some time. Rather than address any arguments I make
on a topic, he attacks me personally in ways that cannot be answered within
the context of the discussion. They are a form of slander.
I attempt to discuss some health topic. He posts a personal attack, designed
to misrepresent, to mischaracterise, to discredit, to divert from the actual
discussion, and in some instances to cause personal harm and injury.
He has done so for a long time now. He cannot be held accountable in the
usual ways as his posts are not in the archives.
While some speak of his "freedom of speech", I would say that he is using
his specifically *to cause personal harm and injury*, and is doing so with
intentional malice.
MP has said it should be addressed "with words". How is that possible when
his posts are no longer there? And when any attempt to do so is met with
further injurious attacks.
The only recourse that I'm aware of would be in the form of a legal case.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/821ec5fe81d8a932
Subject: Bill for Banning Amalgam Reintroduced
Sept 7 2006
Path: g2news2.google.com!postnews.google.com!i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
From: "James Drew (Suffering Mightily)" <suffering_james_d...@xxxxxxxxx>
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative,sci.med.dentistry,sci.med,misc.kids.health,misc.headlines
Subject: Re: Bill for Banning Amalgam Reintroduced
Date: 7 Sep 2006 04:26:01 -0700
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Jan Drew wrote:
"Sdores" <sdo...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:ZzHLg.48276$w7.2279@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>I still would like to know why only a certain amount claim toxicity from
>amalgams but most don't and the big question I have is if it is so toxic
>why aren't dentists sick with all these diseases? I saw my dentist last
>month and yes he spoke to me about amalgams and how they can be >dangerous.
>UM MOM Susan
>
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/70225338ad2f81bc?hl=en&;
Nov 1 2005
I've asked this before Peter but I would like if you would your opinion on
this. Why does the mercury in amalgams effect only a few and why aren't
more dentists and others in the dental field that have contact with it have
poisoning? UM MOM Susan
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/dc7b29723561b614?hl=en&;
"Sdores" <sdo...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:siS9f.31534$_31.18401@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> I've asked this before Peter but I would like if you would your opinion > on
> this. Why does the mercury in amalgams effect only a few and why aren't
> more dentists and others in the dental field that have contact with it
> have poisoning? UM MOM Susan
I realize you are asking, Peter.
The FACT is, *I* have answered both of these questioned MANY times.
The FACT, Jan, is that you lie about amalgams & thimerosal. The FACT
is that this song reminds me of you, dear Jan.
Sung to the tune of Heavy Metal by Don Felder, not the song of the same
title by Sammy Hagar. It wouldn't hurt to hear the song before reading
this...)
Light a cig up & booze awhile
Leave the truth far behind
You can vent your rage at the ADA
Or claim that all the Jews here are liars
But if you're ready to lie into overdrive
Boyd Haley's the man you need
To post lies so insane
Debunked and arcane
You must become a Heavy Metal deceiver
Once you tell Boyd's lies, lies, lies
'bout Heavy Metals
It's the only thing gives you purpose in this life
Spreading lies, lies, lies, lies
'bout Heavy Metals
Facts denied
Lying 'bout thimerosal
My, oh my, how this bigot can lie
When she starts cutting & pasting
She won't put down her booze
Nor acknowledge the truth
She didn't get that author's permission
It's not a big surprise
Jan thought loa parasites
Were thriving inside of her colon
Jan searched through her pooh
As Hulda said to do
Then became a Heavy Metal deceiver
Once you tell Boyd's lies, lies, lies
'bout Heavy Metals
It's the only thing gives you purpose in this life
Spreading lies, lies, lies, lies
'bout Heavy Metals
Facts denied
Lying 'bout thimerosal
Heavy Metals 5x and fade out
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OrgName: Road Runner HoldCo LLC
OrgID: RRMA
Address: 13241 Woodland Park Road
City: Herndon
StateProv: VA
PostalCode: 20171
Country: US
[http://www.kingoffacupuncture.com/ Andrew Kingoff, L.Ac. State License] Path: g2news2.google.com!postnews.google.com!h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
From: Andrew_King...@xxxxxxxxx
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative,sci.med.dentistry
Subject: Re: FDA admits Mercury in dentistry MIGHT indeed be HARMFUL
Date: 15 Sep 2006 11:34:38 -0700
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PeterB wrote:
David Wright wrote:
> In article <1158264045.421323.31...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
> PeterB <p...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> >Clinton wrote:
> >> PeterB wrote:
> >> > I could care less how people make a living, Markey. The issue is
> >> > whether a product or medical procedure puts the public at undue > >> > risk.
> >> > Forensic studies have linked mercury exposure to increased > >> > secretion of
> >> > amyloid protein and hyper-phosphorylation of a protein referred to > >> > as
> >> > Tau (1), which means mercury amalgam may be an undue risk for a > >> > small
> >> > percentage of people.
> >>
> >> There is even a more basic problem. All amalgams look the same but
> >> they are not of the same quality. A poorly constructed amalgam can
> >> "come apart" over time giving off much more Hg. Some also interact
> >> galvanically with nearby amalgams, or other dental metals which > >> greatly
> >> increases the Hg release.
> >>
> >> Finally bacteria on the surface of amalgam can and do methylate the
> >> Hg in some cases. A poorly constructed amalgam is actually porous and
> >> can be invaded by bacteria which can undergo electrochemical > >> reactions
> >> with the amalgam. Methyl Hg is more more toxic
> >
> >Right, and that exposure may be linked to neurological diseases. I
> >can't think of any reason to continue using mercury in dentistry, since
> >other materials are available.
>
> I can. Some people are allergic to the other materials, and amalgam
> is cheap and durable. Shucks, I have two amalgam fillings.
Ok, let's ask everyone who knows they are allergic to the other
materials to choose something with mercury in it, in case the risk of
alzheimers, multiple sclerosis, or early death is more appealing to
them. [ref. Bates MN, Fawcett J, Garrett N, Cutress T, Kjellstrom T.
The beneficial effect of amalgam replacement on health in patients with
autoimmunity. Neuro Endocrinol Lett. 2004 Jun;25(3):211-8. PMID
15349088.]
PeterB
Peterb, you've sited a non-replicated study of 35 people without a
control group. Is it the best evidence you could find? You always
demand much higher standards for other procedures and pharmaceuticals.
Why settle for so much less when dealing with the risky process of
removing amalgams from people who already have autoimmune disorders?
If I recall correctly, you said: "I could care less how people make a
living, Markey. The issue is whether a product or medical procedure
puts the public at undue risk." Amalgam removal has clear risks and
nebulous benefits. It is far more profitable to removal than install
amalgams. (Do follow the money, Peterb.)
What are the benefits of amalgam removal? Let's ask someone with
real-life experience with autoimmune disease and amalgams. After all,
on MHA, real-life experience always trumps objectively verifiable,
replicable studes. Let's ask someone who is clearly in favor of health
alternatives. Let's ask someone who is a supporter of Jan and shares
much of her distrust of mainstream medicine. Let's ask someone whose
comments have been archived on this newsgroup (MHA) for several years.
At first, Rod, thought that amalgam removal had greatly improved his
condition (RA).
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/49cdfb908a196ead
More recently, Rod wrote:
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/0593e7afc21ab4f6
The first lines reading:
--------------------
From: Rod - view profile
Date: Tues, Jun 7 2005 9:25 am
Email: "Rod" <deniecer...@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Hi Jan,
Well that is what I wrote nearly three years ago and since that time I
would
say that my health has not improved markedly and has continued to
decline.
More so over the past 12 months.
------------------
He closes with
-----------
"I would ask that you respect my wishes by not quoting my remarks of
2002 as
certainly in 2005, things are not looking decidedly better. I wish this
was
not the case though.
Wishing I could report better times.
Sincerely, Rod
------------
Let's also take a look at Jan's experience with amalgam removal. It is
quite like Rod's. At first it seemed to work, but that isn't how
things actually turned out. Jan's claims of health improvements were
clearly disproven with her own words.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.health.dental-amalgam/msg/d7b2aa4ff3eaa011?hl=en&;
On June 17, 1999 Jan posted to usenet:I have peripheral neuropathy, and have been searching for a cause for over a
year. I have read Hulda Clark's books where she mentions the mercury problem. I
am only 35 miles from the dentist who sh is speaking with in her book. Dr.
Frank Jerome, who has written "Tooth Truth", a very enlightening book. I had my
first appointment today and 1/4 of my mouth is now mercury free. I go back
tomorrow to get another 1/4 done. Later, I will get my only root canal pulled.
I truly believe this is the cause of my problems. If you have a condition that
the doctors can't find, it is wise to suspect the teeth.
Thanks Again,
Jan
However, the link below shows us that Jan's "relief", like
Rod's, was not due to the reduction of mercury. The amount of
mercury in their bloodstream was actually higher at the time of the
reported relief. Over time, the relief declined and their prior health
problems remained and even worsened.
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.dentistry/msg/1232e6142d1386ab?hl=en&;
Now, in light of the real-life, personal experience of two of MHA's
most pro-alternative posters, what do you see? You see ill-informed
people getting taken advantage of by someone who enjoys a large
financial gain. You see both of these people initially thought they
were better off. Time has shown that it was all an illusion born of
suggestibility. Having so much time, money, belief, and pain invested
into this process, they wanted to believe despite the facts. Their
experience is far from unusual.
What is unusual is for people so heavily invested to consider they made
a mistake. I salute Rod for not only admitting this to himself, but
also to the readers of MHA. He went even further by asking that people
not quote his prior endorsment of amalgam removal. It appears that he,
unlike Jan, doesn't want others to suffer unnecessarily.
Kudos, Rod! I only hope your cautionary tale isn't lost on these
closed-minded types.
Cues:
Cue Jan to respond with rabid antisemitism.
Cue her to justify her hatred against all jews because she doesn't like
me. Cue her to say that lying comes second nature to all jews.
Cue her to ignore the clear debunking of amalgam removal and continue
to lie about her experience.
Cue Peterb to ignore these real-life experiences of real-life
supporters of alternative methods.
Cue Peterb to accuse me of being on BigPharma's payroll.
Cue Peterb not to site any better quality studies in favor of amalgam
removal.
Sad, that.
Output from ARIN WHOIS
Search results for: 24.172.29.10
OrgName: Road Runner HoldCo LLC
OrgID: RCMS
Address: 13241 Woodland Park Road
City: Herndon
StateProv: VA
PostalCode: 20171
Country: US
Subject changed: Paranoia Spread by Jan Drew
The One True Zhen Jue" <Andrew_King...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:1155694755.504458.210830@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Please note that message was nuked by Andrew
Original subject: EVIDENCE-BASED FEAR SPREAD BY THE MEDICAL PROFESSION
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From: "Jan Drew" <jdrew1...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative,sci.med,talk.politics.medicine,alt.support.breast-implant,uk.people.health,misc.kids.health
Subject: EVIDENCE-BASED FEAR SPREAD BY THE MEDICAL PROFESSION
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Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 21:36:54 GMT
http://209.15.36.125/frinfo.htm
Excerpt:
EVIDENCE-BASED FEAR SPREAD BY THE MEDICAL PROFESSION
32 WAYS THAT DOCTORS PUT YOUR LIFE AND HEALTH IN DANGER BY NOT TELLING YOU
THE WHOLE TRUTH OR GIVING YOU ALL THE OPTIONS
1. According to a report in Alternative Therapies in 2003, the modern
hospital is an exceedingly dangerous place. Approximately 225,000 Americans
die in hospitals annually from the side effects of medications and because
of medical errors. Another 103,000 die each year from the 2 million
infections that they catch after they are admitted to the hospital (one
infection for every 20 admissions). Hospitalization is the third-leading
cause of death. Only cancer and heart disease kill more.
2. Outpatient drug side effects are responsible for sending
25,000-50,000 patients per year to the hospital. Cohen, Overdose
3. Permanent brain damage is noted in 42-80% of people as a
complication of undergoing bypass surgery. Family Practice News
4. 80% of bypass surgery is unnecessary, according to Harvard
University. Although not recommended by Harvard, chelation therapy is a
much safer treatment for coronary artery and other vascular problems.
Grayboys
5. At least 75% of coronary artery catheterizations are unnecessary,
also according to Harvard. And once in a while someone dies from this test.
Once you get such a test, minor abnormalities are often found that the
doctor uses to pressure you into having unnecessary surgery. Grayboys
6. If you are in the hospital, the chances are good that your insurance
company will pressure your doctor to send you home before you are ready, to
save them money.
AMA News
7. One of the most common orthopedic surgeries, arthroscopic surgery of
the knee, gets worse results than a sham surgery that creates a wound but
does nothing else.
Family Practice News
8. For most cases of coronary artery disease, the mortality rate is no
better with surgical therapy than with medical therapy. We do far more
bypass procedures in the USA than anywhere else. JAMA
9. A major hospital chain (Tenet) in California in 2003 paid a $54
million fine because doctors at their hospitals performed hundreds of
unnecessary invasive cardiac procedures-including some that led to death-to
increase profits. This is the tip of the iceberg. AMA News
~~~~
Traced by to 2001 when he used jkingoff@xxxxxxx
Path: supernews.google.com!sn-xit-03!supernews.com!cyclone-sjo1.usenetserver.com!news-out-sjo.usenetserver.com!europa.netcrusader.net!152.163.239.130!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
Lines: 5
X-Admin: n...@xxxxxxx
From: jking...@xxxxxxx (JKingoff)
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
Date: 12 Apr 2001 04:33:07 GMT
References: <YE8B6.47$yh.10725@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Subject: Re: The Tools "Qi-Challege"
Message-ID: <20010412003307.20577.00003029@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Fair enough.
Email me with the details at:
andrew_king...@xxxxxxxxx
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/821ec5fe81d8a932 Subject: Bill for Banning Amalgam Reintroduced Sept 7 2006 Path: g2news2.google.com!postnews.google.com!i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com!not-for-mailFrom: "James Drew (Suffering Mightily)" <suffering_james_d...@xxxxxxxxx>Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative,sci.med.dentistry,sci.med,misc.kids.health,misc.headlinesSubject: Re: Bill for Banning Amalgam ReintroducedDate: 7 Sep 2006 04:26:01 -0700Organization: http://groups.google.comLines: 86Message-ID: <1157628361.296502.219960@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>References: <5AtJg.1967$Cq4.371@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> <1157139100.100735.249890@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> <1157243594.954413.73580@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> <uq6lf2prc152qnip3v24914rqa924pab7v@xxxxxxx> <1157497327.262868.190330@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> <963sf2ddgq2vfkj2c289svj72gve4rkg9k@xxxxxxx> <1157567901.428423.11670@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> <akeuf2t1givlcui07gnkv3auenl0ldfifd@xxxxxxx> <ZzHLg.48276$w7.2279@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> <XHNLg.16211$1f6.11415@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.184.40.47Mime-Version: 1.0Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"X-Trace: posting.google.com 1157628366 23040 127.0.0.1 (7 Sep 2006 11:26:06 GMT)X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 11:26:06 +0000 (UTC)In-Reply-To: <XHNLg.16211$1f6.11415@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>User-Agent: G2/0.2X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; SV1; .NET CLR 1.0.3705; Media Center PC 4.0; .NET CLR 1.1.4322),gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe)Complaints-To: groups-abuse@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx: i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com; posting-host=65.184.40.47; posting-account=TW3lbg0AAAAIAGZUQVm2c4_mhrmYE0fCJan Drew wrote:> "Sdores" <sdo...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message> news:ZzHLg.48276$w7.2279@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> >I still would like to know why only a certain amount claim toxicity from> >amalgams but most don't and the big question I have is if it is so toxic> >why aren't dentists sick with all these diseases? I saw my dentist last> >month and yes he spoke to me about amalgams and how they can be dangerous.> >UM MOM Susan> >> http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/70225338ad2f81bc?hl=en&;>> Nov 1 2005>> I've asked this before Peter but I would like if you would your opinion on> this. Why does the mercury in amalgams effect only a few and why aren't> more dentists and others in the dental field that have contact with it have> poisoning? UM MOM Susan>> http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/dc7b29723561b614?hl=en&;>> "Sdores" <sdo...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message>>> news:siS9f.31534$_31.18401@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>> > I've asked this before Peter but I would like if you would your opinion on> > this. Why does the mercury in amalgams effect only a few and why aren't> > more dentists and others in the dental field that have contact with it> > have poisoning? UM MOM Susan>>> I realize you are asking, Peter.>> The FACT is, *I* have answered both of these questioned MANY times.>The FACT, Jan, is that you lie about amalgams & thimerosal. The FACTis that this song reminds me of you, dear Jan.Sung to the tune of Heavy Metal by Don Felder, not the song of the sametitle by Sammy Hagar. It wouldn't hurt to hear the song before readingthis...)Light a cig up & booze awhileLeave the truth far behindYou can vent your rage at the ADAOr claim that all the Jews here are liarsBut if you're ready to lie into overdriveBoyd Haley's the man you needTo post lies so insaneDebunked and arcaneYou must become a Heavy Metal deceiverOnce you tell Boyd's lies, lies, lies'bout Heavy MetalsIt's the only thing gives you purpose in this lifeSpreading lies, lies, lies, lies'bout Heavy MetalsFacts deniedLying 'bout thimerosalMy, oh my, how this bigot can lieWhen she starts cutting & pastingShe won't put down her boozeNor acknowledge the truthShe didn't get that author's permissionIt's not a big surpriseJan thought loa parasitesWere thriving inside of her colonJan searched through her poohAs Hulda said to doThen became a Heavy Metal deceiverOnce you tell Boyd's lies, lies, lies'bout Heavy MetalsIt's the only thing gives you purpose in this lifeSpreading lies, lies, lies, lies'bout Heavy MetalsFacts denied Lying 'bout thimerosal Heavy Metals 5x and fade out Output from ARIN WHOIS Search results for: 65.184.40.47 OrgName: Road Runner HoldCo LLC
OrgID: RRMA
Address: 13241 Woodland Park Road
City: Herndon
StateProv: VA
PostalCode: 20171
Country: US
[http://www.kingoffacupuncture.com/ Andrew Kingoff, L.Ac. State License] Path: g2news2.google.com!postnews.google.com!h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
From: Andrew_King...@xxxxxxxxx
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative,sci.med.dentistry
Subject: Re: FDA admits Mercury in dentistry MIGHT indeed be HARMFUL
Date: 15 Sep 2006 11:34:38 -0700
Organization: http://groups.google.com
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Injection-Info: h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com; posting-host=24.172.29.10;
posting-account=aIuHfQ0AAADyGxRsUFmSTVE_YwfQuJDr
PeterB wrote:
David Wright wrote:
> In article <1158264045.421323.31...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
> PeterB <p...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> >Clinton wrote:
> >> PeterB wrote:
> >> > I could care less how people make a living, Markey. The issue is
> >> > whether a product or medical procedure puts the public at undue > >> > risk.
> >> > Forensic studies have linked mercury exposure to increased > >> > secretion of
> >> > amyloid protein and hyper-phosphorylation of a protein referred to > >> > as
> >> > Tau (1), which means mercury amalgam may be an undue risk for a > >> > small
> >> > percentage of people.
> >>
> >> There is even a more basic problem. All amalgams look the same but
> >> they are not of the same quality. A poorly constructed amalgam can
> >> "come apart" over time giving off much more Hg. Some also interact
> >> galvanically with nearby amalgams, or other dental metals which > >> greatly
> >> increases the Hg release.
> >>
> >> Finally bacteria on the surface of amalgam can and do methylate the
> >> Hg in some cases. A poorly constructed amalgam is actually porous and
> >> can be invaded by bacteria which can undergo electrochemical > >> reactions
> >> with the amalgam. Methyl Hg is more more toxic
> >
> >Right, and that exposure may be linked to neurological diseases. I
> >can't think of any reason to continue using mercury in dentistry, since
> >other materials are available.
>
> I can. Some people are allergic to the other materials, and amalgam
> is cheap and durable. Shucks, I have two amalgam fillings.
Ok, let's ask everyone who knows they are allergic to the other
materials to choose something with mercury in it, in case the risk of
alzheimers, multiple sclerosis, or early death is more appealing to
them. [ref. Bates MN, Fawcett J, Garrett N, Cutress T, Kjellstrom T.
The beneficial effect of amalgam replacement on health in patients with
autoimmunity. Neuro Endocrinol Lett. 2004 Jun;25(3):211-8. PMID
15349088.]
PeterB
Peterb, you've sited a non-replicated study of 35 people without a
control group. Is it the best evidence you could find? You always
demand much higher standards for other procedures and pharmaceuticals.
Why settle for so much less when dealing with the risky process of
removing amalgams from people who already have autoimmune disorders?
If I recall correctly, you said: "I could care less how people make a
living, Markey. The issue is whether a product or medical procedure
puts the public at undue risk." Amalgam removal has clear risks and
nebulous benefits. It is far more profitable to removal than install
amalgams. (Do follow the money, Peterb.)
What are the benefits of amalgam removal? Let's ask someone with
real-life experience with autoimmune disease and amalgams. After all,
on MHA, real-life experience always trumps objectively verifiable,
replicable studes. Let's ask someone who is clearly in favor of health
alternatives. Let's ask someone who is a supporter of Jan and shares
much of her distrust of mainstream medicine. Let's ask someone whose
comments have been archived on this newsgroup (MHA) for several years.
At first, Rod, thought that amalgam removal had greatly improved his
condition (RA).
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/49cdfb908a196ead
More recently, Rod wrote:
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/0593e7afc21ab4f6
The first lines reading:
--------------------
From: Rod - view profile
Date: Tues, Jun 7 2005 9:25 am
Email: "Rod" <deniecer...@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Hi Jan,
Well that is what I wrote nearly three years ago and since that time I
would
say that my health has not improved markedly and has continued to
decline.
More so over the past 12 months.
------------------
He closes with
-----------
"I would ask that you respect my wishes by not quoting my remarks of
2002 as
certainly in 2005, things are not looking decidedly better. I wish this
was
not the case though.
Wishing I could report better times.
Sincerely, Rod
------------
Let's also take a look at Jan's experience with amalgam removal. It is
quite like Rod's. At first it seemed to work, but that isn't how
things actually turned out. Jan's claims of health improvements were
clearly disproven with her own words.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.health.dental-amalgam/msg/d7b2aa4ff3eaa011?hl=en&;
On June 17, 1999 Jan posted to usenet:I have peripheral neuropathy, and have been searching for a cause for over a
year. I have read Hulda Clark's books where she mentions the mercury problem. I
am only 35 miles from the dentist who sh is speaking with in her book. Dr.
Frank Jerome, who has written "Tooth Truth", a very enlightening book. I had my
first appointment today and 1/4 of my mouth is now mercury free. I go back
tomorrow to get another 1/4 done. Later, I will get my only root canal pulled.
I truly believe this is the cause of my problems. If you have a condition that
the doctors can't find, it is wise to suspect the teeth.
Thanks Again,
Jan
However, the link below shows us that Jan's "relief", like
Rod's, was not due to the reduction of mercury. The amount of
mercury in their bloodstream was actually higher at the time of the
reported relief. Over time, the relief declined and their prior health
problems remained and even worsened.
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.dentistry/msg/1232e6142d1386ab?hl=en&;
Now, in light of the real-life, personal experience of two of MHA's
most pro-alternative posters, what do you see? You see ill-informed
people getting taken advantage of by someone who enjoys a large
financial gain. You see both of these people initially thought they
were better off. Time has shown that it was all an illusion born of
suggestibility. Having so much time, money, belief, and pain invested
into this process, they wanted to believe despite the facts. Their
experience is far from unusual.
What is unusual is for people so heavily invested to consider they made
a mistake. I salute Rod for not only admitting this to himself, but
also to the readers of MHA. He went even further by asking that people
not quote his prior endorsment of amalgam removal. It appears that he,
unlike Jan, doesn't want others to suffer unnecessarily.
Kudos, Rod! I only hope your cautionary tale isn't lost on these
closed-minded types.
Cues:
Cue Jan to respond with rabid antisemitism.
Cue her to justify her hatred against all jews because she doesn't like
me. Cue her to say that lying comes second nature to all jews.
Cue her to ignore the clear debunking of amalgam removal and continue
to lie about her experience.
Cue Peterb to ignore these real-life experiences of real-life
supporters of alternative methods.
Cue Peterb to accuse me of being on BigPharma's payroll.
Cue Peterb not to site any better quality studies in favor of amalgam
removal.
Sad, that.
Output from ARIN WHOIS Search results for: 24.172.29.10 OrgName: Road Runner HoldCo LLC
OrgID: RCMS
Address: 13241 Woodland Park Road
City: Herndon
StateProv: VA
PostalCode: 20171
Country: US
Subject changed: Paranoia Spread by Jan Drew The One True Zhen Jue" <Andrew_King...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:1155694755.504458.210830@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx note that message was nuked by Andrew Original subject: EVIDENCE-BASED FEAR SPREAD BY THE MEDICAL PROFESSIONPath: g2news2.google.com!news4.google.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!border2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!pd7cy3no!shaw.ca!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr27.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!6c044f75!not-for-mail
From: "Jan Drew" <jdrew1...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative,sci.med,talk.politics.medicine,alt.support.breast-implant,uk.people.health,misc.kids.health
Subject: EVIDENCE-BASED FEAR SPREAD BY THE MEDICAL PROFESSION
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X-UserInfo1: TSU[@I_AOPT[B_\YYJ_BZ]EJUSXB@DTMNHWB_EYLJZ]BGIELNVUEAE[YETZPIWWI[FCIZA^NBFXZ_D[BFNTCNVPDTNTKHWXKB@X^B_OCJLPZ@ET_O[G\XSG@E\G[ZKVLBL^CJINM@I_KVIOR\T_M_AW_M[_BWU_HFA_]@A_A^SGFAUDE_DFTMQPFWVW[QPJN
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 21:36:54 GMT
http://209.15.36.125/frinfo.htm
Excerpt:
EVIDENCE-BASED FEAR SPREAD BY THE MEDICAL PROFESSION
32 WAYS THAT DOCTORS PUT YOUR LIFE AND HEALTH IN DANGER BY NOT TELLING YOU
THE WHOLE TRUTH OR GIVING YOU ALL THE OPTIONS
1. According to a report in Alternative Therapies in 2003, the modern
hospital is an exceedingly dangerous place. Approximately 225,000 Americans
die in hospitals annually from the side effects of medications and because
of medical errors. Another 103,000 die each year from the 2 million
infections that they catch after they are admitted to the hospital (one
infection for every 20 admissions). Hospitalization is the third-leading
cause of death. Only cancer and heart disease kill more.
2. Outpatient drug side effects are responsible for sending
25,000-50,000 patients per year to the hospital. Cohen, Overdose
3. Permanent brain damage is noted in 42-80% of people as a
complication of undergoing bypass surgery. Family Practice News
4. 80% of bypass surgery is unnecessary, according to Harvard
University. Although not recommended by Harvard, chelation therapy is a
much safer treatment for coronary artery and other vascular problems.
Grayboys
5. At least 75% of coronary artery catheterizations are unnecessary,
also according to Harvard. And once in a while someone dies from this test.
Once you get such a test, minor abnormalities are often found that the
doctor uses to pressure you into having unnecessary surgery. Grayboys
6. If you are in the hospital, the chances are good that your insurance
company will pressure your doctor to send you home before you are ready, to
save them money.
AMA News
7. One of the most common orthopedic surgeries, arthroscopic surgery of
the knee, gets worse results than a sham surgery that creates a wound but
does nothing else.
Family Practice News
8. For most cases of coronary artery disease, the mortality rate is no
better with surgical therapy than with medical therapy. We do far more
bypass procedures in the USA than anywhere else. JAMA
9. A major hospital chain (Tenet) in California in 2003 paid a $54
million fine because doctors at their hospitals performed hundreds of
unnecessary invasive cardiac procedures-including some that led to death-to
increase profits. This is the tip of the iceberg. AMA News
~~~~ Traced by to 2001 when he used jkingoff@xxxxxxxxxxx: supernews.google.com!sn-xit-03!supernews.com!cyclone-sjo1.usenetserver.com!news-out-sjo.usenetserver.com!europa.netcrusader.net!152.163.239.130!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
Lines: 5
X-Admin: n...@xxxxxxx
From: jking...@xxxxxxx (JKingoff)
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
Date: 12 Apr 2001 04:33:07 GMT
References: <YE8B6.47$yh.10725@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Subject: Re: The Tools "Qi-Challege"
Message-ID: <20010412003307.20577.00003029@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Fair enough.
Email me with the details at:
andrew_king...@xxxxxxxxx
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/2c37faabc4211c16 June 7 2000 Andrew Kingoff <aking...@xxxxxxxxxx> writes: > jbai...@xxxxxxx (John Bain) wrote: >>In this case, Andrew stated that the Florida statutes defined >'disharmonies'. >>It is obvious from the statutes, which are on-line, that they do not. >There is no need to bother anyone else. >Wrong again, John. I gave the number for the Acupuncture Board. Do >you think they won't know the scope of practice or that disharmonies >(acupuncture diagnoses) are valid diagnoses in Florida? That is not what you said, Andrew. You insisted that 'disharmonies' were defined in the Florida statutes. They are not. >Do you think >that my school's academic dean wouldn't know our licensing and >accreditation? Quite irrelevant, the legal definition of disharmonies is the issue.. >This is sad, John. You hate sarcasm so badly that >you are willing to lie in order to call me a liar. You are the one who said 'disharmonies' was defined in the Florida statutes. Do you deny this? kaalga has posted and reposted your exact words. >You know that licensing board & my school's academic dean >are VALID sources on this topic. You are lying in order to further >Kaalga's lie and demonstrate that beautifully in your Evasion >of confirmation. Bad Boy, Johnny! They have nothing to do with the Florida Statutes, which are available on-line for anyone to read. Unfortunately you eiither cannot understand them, or you are a liar. >>He hopes we will give up and go on to another topic and let him get away >>with deliberately trying to deceive. >Yes, that is my motive for posting the phone# of the licensing board. >I'm hoping to obscure the topic by insisting that you confirm my >claims. Exactly, the licensing board is not responsible for the Florida Statutes. They license. >I have contacted Habib who has agreed to call my school on behalf >of the NG. He will ask the academic dean the pertinate questions >and any others have may have and will post the results. He will be >back from vacation around the 14th, so it will posted sometime after >that. What questions, Andrew. The only answer we wish from you is the number of the Florida statute which defines 'disharmonies' or an apology for stating it did. That is the issue and you will not be allowed to evade it. >I understand your weakness in not being able to separate the messenger >from the facts. You represent this constantly and not just on this >topic. Only messengers who deliberately lie to try and win points. > You are blinded by your aversion to my prior sarcasm that >you simply must label me a liar. No, your words make the case. You said 'disharmonies' was defined in the Florida statutes. It is not. You lied to make a point. >You have gone so far as to >speculate that my school wouldn't have anyone who could handle the >call without even anecdotal evidence. Ditto for the State Board. Please tell us why you think there is an expert in the Florida Statutes at your school and which statute they would refer us to. Ditto the licensing board. All we need is the statute number for 'disharmonies' and they can not supply that because it does not exist. >So, if Habib told you he called my school, spoke with the Dean, and >confirmed what I said, would you accept Habib's word? Not without the statute number. We are only interested in the number of the statute which defines 'disharmonies'. >Even if you >don't believe the information itself, would you not accept his account >of the incident as far as what he asked & heard? Irrelevant, Statute number is all we need. But we have already examined the statutes and there is no reference to 'disharmonies' there. >If you won't take my word nor that of the institutions involved nor >that of a neutral 3rd party, then you have clearly labeled your >position. Statute number or apology. Our position is perfectly clear. You stated several times that 'disharmonies' was defined in the Florida statutes. Either give us the statute number or aplologise for making the mistake. Perfectly simple Andrew. Stop dodging the issue. Admit you made a mistake. Or be branded a liar. Best wishes -- John Bain UK TV Sound Director, magnotherapy user & distributor http://members.aol.com/JBainSI/Magnotherapy.html Surround Sound for Television
ilsa9w@xxxxxxxxxxxxx (Say Yes to EOM)
ilsa9w@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx (MCS Is NOT Real)
ilsa9w@xxxxxxxxxxxx (Nobody Would Ever Killfile Ilsa9)
ilsa9w@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Cant We All JUST Love Ilsa9)
ilsa9w@xxxxxxx(steaming bag of feces)
ilsa9w@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (This Alias Brought to YOU by EOM)
jkingoff@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx (TaskForce 626
jkingoff@xxxxxxx (Jan Drew Loves Dr Wilson!)
jkingoff@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Hulda Clark Got Zapped)
jkingoff@xxxxxxxxxxxxx (Dr Wilson Paging Jan Drew)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/fe57283247f4f69f
Sept 22 2002
But Andrew, you are not very good at maintaining your separate personas.
Do you remember this interchange where you forgot which account you were
posting from?
----------------- Message 22
From: Kris Brys (kris.b...@xxxxxxxxxx)
Subject: Re: why do we need homeopathy?
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
View this article only
Date: 2001-10-09 03:30:51 PST
---------------------- "Ilsa Nein" <ils...@xxxxxxxxxxx> schreef in bericht
news:20011007160718.28876.00002145@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>I can say much more than one good thing about homeopathy. Not only doDear Ilsa,
>I love the principle that less can be more but it turns out to be the
>most 'proper' treatment I have ever received. I have used it SOLELY
>for 6 years.
So, you've been taking it for 6 years and you're not cured?
how many years do you use regular medicine? how many years do you take
antibiotics. Did that cured you permanently?
If you start thinking, even a couple of seconds, you will find out that
people don't cure forever.
A good advice: read Organon of Samuel Hahnemann. When you haven't read
that
book you will not understand what homeopathy is all about. Read it and
than
ask questions.
greetings
Kris
------ Message 23 in thread
From: JKingoff (jking...@xxxxxxx)
Subject: Re: why do we need homeopathy?
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
View this article only
Date: 2001-10-09 06:08:38 PSTDear Ilsa,I haven't needed regular medicine much. I have had my vaccinations, eat
how many years do you use regular medicine?
properly, exercise, and don't take silly risks.
how many years do you takeI have taken antibiotics once. I was Rx'd a single pill.
antibiotics
. Did that cured you permanently?Well, I felt much better the following day and haven't taken one since and
that
was bout 6 years ago.
If you start thinking, even a couple of seconds, you will find out thatDuh. However, some conditions are resolved and in the absence of
people don't cure forever.
re-infection
they don't reoccur.
A good advice: read Organon of Samuel Hahnemann. When you haven't readI've read it and I've read more modern books on it. Its pure hokum and
that
book you will not understand what homeopathy is all about. Read it and
than
ask questions.
the
few
well controlled studies support that conclusion. Even the study that is
frequently posted to MHA that supposedly proves homeopathy isn't even
FAVORABLE
to homeopathy.
greetingsShow us a replicated, controlled, peer-reviewed study which show that
Kris
homeopathy is efficacious. Homeopathy was Hahnemann's way of acting-out
against "the system". It is nothing more than superstition,
pseudo-science,
and sympathetic magic.
In the 21st century, we have real medicine and don't need to cling to the
vanity of a long deceased, disaffected 18th century doctor of voodoo.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/e09f62b1b04cb4b7
Mar 24 2004
Subject: Re: Andrew Kingoff defames himself
From: ils...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Cant We All JUST Love Ilsa9)
Date: 3/24/2004 3:26 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <20040324182626.27471.00000...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
So llsa admits yet again that she/he is Andrew.
Anth
Are you piss-drunk, Anth?
Poor Andrew.
All I said was that Jan sent me, and a few other MHA
regulars, picture(s) of herself. How you derive from that the notion that I
am
somebody else is pure blarney.
I sent IIsa NO picture.
Here is a post Andrew made, I guess he forgot, the post he made under his fake
name is pretty much the same.
From: andrew_king...@xxxxxxxxxxx (andrew_king...@xxxxxxxxxxx)
Subject: Re: Anxiety and Depression
Original Format
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
Date: 2001-01-31 17:20:18 PST
What a coincidence. That's exactly how Jan & I met. She also accused
me of being Aaron Fox, & accused Alarca & Polfus of being me. I think
there's a term for that, but I wouldn't want to give even the
impression that I was diagnosing anyone. ;)
From: MHA Needs More Skeptics (ils...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)
Subject: Re: Kofi Annan vs ... Mr "David Wright"
Original Format
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
Date: 2004-03-22 14:37:33 PST
Let me chime in, if I may. You see, Jan has a nasty habit (ok, she has
several) of accusing people of being other people. Case in point: Jan thinks
that I, Ilsa, am a guy named Andrew, a Licensed Acupuncturist. Jan thought
that Andrew was another guy, named Aaron Fox and before that, she thought
Andrew was here own "atheist Phd brother".
Now it's time for a another KABOOM.
From: JKingoff (jking...@xxxxxxx)
Subject: Re: Get lost, Bill
View this article only
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
Date: 2002-03-09 07:36:43 PST
In 2000, Jan also asked for a photo of me and sent me one of herself.
(I sent her one of a deceased cousin of mine, FWIW. I didn't want that
dysfunctional bundle of paranoia knowing just how radiant, handsome, and GQ I
am....well, actually, I just didn't want Jan to have a proper image of me to
fixate upon.)
To me, Jan looked EXACTLY as I expected her to. She looks angry, hostile,
disoriented, rode hard and put away wet. She claims to have had cosmetic
surgery, which if true, may explain her hatred of conventional medicine.
If you want a fair idea of what Jan looks like, take Minnie Pearl, dye her hair
auburn, and give her a cheap face lift. My apologize to Minnie Pearl for the
unfavorable comparison.
Bottom line, nobody will ever want to see Jan hiking in the nude...
========
Andrew Kingoff, poor despicable and pathetic liar.
EXPOSED!!!!!
(watch Richard H Jacobson hide behind his rock).
Jan
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/96cb9d64d7a829b0
Now Aribert Deckers joins him.
Subject: Re: ANDREW KINGOFF DEFAMED BY Arch-Antisemite, Jan Drew!!!!!
From: wri...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (David Wright)
Date: 3/24/2004 6:30 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <Nur8c.28492$gf6.4...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
In article <20040324100339.22051.00000...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
MHA Needs More Skeptics <ils...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On 23 Mar 2004 16:50:14 GMT, ils...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (MHA Needs More
Skeptics) wrote:
Jan is a female....woman....no Y Chromosome....NOT a Dude....
Well, IF you are a skeptic, why do you believe that Jan Drew is
female?
Well, I could just say that "she" has been very consistent in her
story in all regards concerning her gender. Further, about 2 years
ago, she emailed me a picture of herself and a couple of her pets. I
have no idea why she did that, but I'm told that she has sent her
picture to a few other people including David Wright and Andrew
Kingoff. Considering her great hatred for them both, as well as
myself, I can only assume there was some malicious intent behind
revealing her, uh, "visage" (Face).
She did send me a picture, yes. I know that Aribert will not believe
any evidence we supply, of course, which is why he's in my killfile
too. (Well, that plus the fact that he posts the same crap over and
over.) I think we should start referring to Aribert as "she" until
Aribert starts referring to Jan as "she."
Jan also phoned Aaron Fox one time when Aaron was doing a night radio
show. I think we may safely assume that Aaron could tell a male from
a female voice.
Hey hey, I had forgotten that.
Hellooooooooooooooooooooooooo Happy!!!!!!
I realize that Jan is often a male name in Germany, but in the USA,
it is usually a woman's name. If for no other reason, please refer
to Jan as a woman to show solidarity with your fellow Evil Organized
Medicine mafia comrades.
Hear, hear.
Say David, nuttin to say about Andrew's LYING???????
I am all ears.
Jan
~~~~~~~~~~
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/a37edc9bdaff3e07
May 31 2003
"JKingoff" <jking...@xxxxxxx> wrote
Serioulsy, Karuna, I think you are going after the wrong person and
without sufficient cause.
Here are some of the differences:
1. JD posts under her own name.
a.h.r does not.
The one can be fairly easily held accountable.
The other cannot.
2. JD does not remove her posts from the archives afaiaa. If she ever has
done so it would be a rare exception, and has not been noted.
The other routinely removes almost all of his.
Again, the one can be held accountable for what they have posted.
The other is avoiding all accountability.
This means that for the one, any inconsistencies, errors, patterns of
posting, abusive posts, harmful posts, any biases, prejudices, particular
agendas, etc, can all be brought to light. They *are not being hidden*.
Such is not the case for the other.
3. JD's posts show that she is primarily concerned with discussing certain
aspects of alt health, consequent to her own experience *with alt health*,
and what she has read or otherwise learned irt that ('that' being, presently
and for some time, removal of dental amalgam). As she does not remove her
posts, this can be easily verified.
A.h.r has posted *primarily* to harrass, to abuse and to discredit selected
individuals. He avoids all accountability for his abusive posting by removal
of his posts from the archives.
4. JD makes no secret of the level or limits to her educational
qualifications and background.
The other does.
Again, the one is prepared to be accountable, the other not.
It means that one is able to imply superior authority to which he may
not be entitled.
It also means that *IF* he has committed harm or fraud, or has been struck
off a medical register for malpractice, eg, we cannot determine that. Given
that his posting history has revealed both an implied claim to medical
authority and a certain disregard for standards of ethics, there is that
possibility imo.
5. JD has made no secret of her support for a particular alt practitioner.
We do not know what affiliations the other poster has which may be
motivating or influencing his mha posts. Nor can this be verified, due to
his anonymous posting.
6. JD has stated that she has or has had certain specific illnesses, and is
taking medications which she has named.
A.h.r does not reveal what medications he may be on, nor what other drugs or
related substances he may be taking, nor what illnesses he may have, or have
been diagnosed with in the past. And any claims he makes regarding that
cannot be verified.
He makes repeated suggestions that certain other posters may have or have
had psychiatric problems. The question arises, Why would someone be so
fixated? IMO his posts, his posting patterns, are not those of a
psychologically healthy or balanced person. Does he have, or has he ever
been diagnosed with, certain psychiatric problems? Or has he been
recommended for such diagnosis by others IRL? We don't know. Nor can this be
verified, while JD's med history can be verified.
7. JD posts substantial content and information on alt health topics from
various sources, while continually working via her posts to establish the
fundamental basis of her particular health argument (being, that dental
amlgam is harmful to people's health). That she also posts in a way that
attacks other posters is not in dispute, but it is noted that this is often
done defensively, in response to attacks which have originated from others.
A.h.r, however, posts almost entirely TO discredit certain selected
posters, - to attack and to discredit them personally. The attacks are of
such a nature that they deter or prevent open discussion here on mha. Many
of his posts reveal, imo, malicious intent, - an intention to cause personal
harm as well as discreditment. While the same can be said about some of
JD's posts, insofar as she is posting under her own name and has her
posts there in the archives for verification, she at least is prepared to be
accountable for such, here on a discussion forum which is being so affected.
The other is not.
8. There is the question of multiple posting personas.
I have no reason whatsoever to think that JD is posting as other than
herself. I do have reason to believe that the poster a.h.r also posts as
several other posters, not least the "deb".
9. The poster has selected me for personal discreditment, and has been
posting to that end for some time. Rather than address any arguments I make
on a topic, he attacks me personally in ways that cannot be answered within
the context of the discussion. They are a form of slander.
I attempt to discuss some health topic. He posts a personal attack, designed
to misrepresent, to mischaracterise, to discredit, to divert from the actual
discussion, and in some instances to cause personal harm and injury.
He has done so for a long time now. He cannot be held accountable in the
usual ways as his posts are not in the archives.
While some speak of his "freedom of speech", I would say that he is using
his specifically *to cause personal harm and injury*, and is doing so with
intentional malice.
MP has said it should be addressed "with words". How is that possible when
his posts are no longer there? And when any attempt to do so is met with
further injurious attacks.
The only recourse that I'm aware of would be in the form of a legal case.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/821ec5fe81d8a932
Subject: Bill for Banning Amalgam Reintroduced
Sept 7 2006
Path: g2news2.google.com!postnews.google.com!i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
From: "James Drew (Suffering Mightily)" <suffering_james_d...@xxxxxxxxx>
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative,sci.med.dentistry,sci.med,misc.kids.health,misc.headlines
Subject: Re: Bill for Banning Amalgam Reintroduced
Date: 7 Sep 2006 04:26:01 -0700
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Jan Drew wrote:
"Sdores" <sdo...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:ZzHLg.48276$w7.2279@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>I still would like to know why only a certain amount claim toxicity from
>amalgams but most don't and the big question I have is if it is so toxic
>why aren't dentists sick with all these diseases? I saw my dentist last
>month and yes he spoke to me about amalgams and how they can be >dangerous.
>UM MOM Susan
>
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/70225338ad2f81bc?hl=en&;
Nov 1 2005
I've asked this before Peter but I would like if you would your opinion on
this. Why does the mercury in amalgams effect only a few and why aren't
more dentists and others in the dental field that have contact with it have
poisoning? UM MOM Susan
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/dc7b29723561b614?hl=en&;
"Sdores" <sdo...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:siS9f.31534$_31.18401@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> I've asked this before Peter but I would like if you would your opinion > on
> this. Why does the mercury in amalgams effect only a few and why aren't
> more dentists and others in the dental field that have contact with it
> have poisoning? UM MOM Susan
I realize you are asking, Peter.
The FACT is, *I* have answered both of these questioned MANY times.
The FACT, Jan, is that you lie about amalgams & thimerosal. The FACT
is that this song reminds me of you, dear Jan.
Sung to the tune of Heavy Metal by Don Felder, not the song of the same
title by Sammy Hagar. It wouldn't hurt to hear the song before reading
this...)
Light a cig up & booze awhile
Leave the truth far behind
You can vent your rage at the ADA
Or claim that all the Jews here are liars
But if you're ready to lie into overdrive
Boyd Haley's the man you need
To post lies so insane
Debunked and arcane
You must become a Heavy Metal deceiver
Once you tell Boyd's lies, lies, lies
'bout Heavy Metals
It's the only thing gives you purpose in this life
Spreading lies, lies, lies, lies
'bout Heavy Metals
Facts denied
Lying 'bout thimerosal
My, oh my, how this bigot can lie
When she starts cutting & pasting
She won't put down her booze
Nor acknowledge the truth
She didn't get that author's permission
It's not a big surprise
Jan thought loa parasites
Were thriving inside of her colon
Jan searched through her pooh
As Hulda said to do
Then became a Heavy Metal deceiver
Once you tell Boyd's lies, lies, lies
'bout Heavy Metals
It's the only thing gives you purpose in this life
Spreading lies, lies, lies, lies
'bout Heavy Metals
Facts denied
Lying 'bout thimerosal
Heavy Metals 5x and fade out
Output from ARIN WHOIS
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OrgName: Road Runner HoldCo LLC
OrgID: RRMA
Address: 13241 Woodland Park Road
City: Herndon
StateProv: VA
PostalCode: 20171
Country: US
[http://www.kingoffacupuncture.com/ Andrew Kingoff, L.Ac. State License] Path: g2news2.google.com!postnews.google.com!h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
From: Andrew_King...@xxxxxxxxx
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative,sci.med.dentistry
Subject: Re: FDA admits Mercury in dentistry MIGHT indeed be HARMFUL
Date: 15 Sep 2006 11:34:38 -0700
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PeterB wrote:
David Wright wrote:
> In article <1158264045.421323.31...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
> PeterB <p...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> >Clinton wrote:
> >> PeterB wrote:
> >> > I could care less how people make a living, Markey. The issue is
> >> > whether a product or medical procedure puts the public at undue > >> > risk.
> >> > Forensic studies have linked mercury exposure to increased > >> > secretion of
> >> > amyloid protein and hyper-phosphorylation of a protein referred to > >> > as
> >> > Tau (1), which means mercury amalgam may be an undue risk for a > >> > small
> >> > percentage of people.
> >>
> >> There is even a more basic problem. All amalgams look the same but
> >> they are not of the same quality. A poorly constructed amalgam can
> >> "come apart" over time giving off much more Hg. Some also interact
> >> galvanically with nearby amalgams, or other dental metals which > >> greatly
> >> increases the Hg release.
> >>
> >> Finally bacteria on the surface of amalgam can and do methylate the
> >> Hg in some cases. A poorly constructed amalgam is actually porous and
> >> can be invaded by bacteria which can undergo electrochemical > >> reactions
> >> with the amalgam. Methyl Hg is more more toxic
> >
> >Right, and that exposure may be linked to neurological diseases. I
> >can't think of any reason to continue using mercury in dentistry, since
> >other materials are available.
>
> I can. Some people are allergic to the other materials, and amalgam
> is cheap and durable. Shucks, I have two amalgam fillings.
Ok, let's ask everyone who knows they are allergic to the other
materials to choose something with mercury in it, in case the risk of
alzheimers, multiple sclerosis, or early death is more appealing to
them. [ref. Bates MN, Fawcett J, Garrett N, Cutress T, Kjellstrom T.
The beneficial effect of amalgam replacement on health in patients with
autoimmunity. Neuro Endocrinol Lett. 2004 Jun;25(3):211-8. PMID
15349088.]
PeterB
Peterb, you've sited a non-replicated study of 35 people without a
control group. Is it the best evidence you could find? You always
demand much higher standards for other procedures and pharmaceuticals.
Why settle for so much less when dealing with the risky process of
removing amalgams from people who already have autoimmune disorders?
If I recall correctly, you said: "I could care less how people make a
living, Markey. The issue is whether a product or medical procedure
puts the public at undue risk." Amalgam removal has clear risks and
nebulous benefits. It is far more profitable to removal than install
amalgams. (Do follow the money, Peterb.)
What are the benefits of amalgam removal? Let's ask someone with
real-life experience with autoimmune disease and amalgams. After all,
on MHA, real-life experience always trumps objectively verifiable,
replicable studes. Let's ask someone who is clearly in favor of health
alternatives. Let's ask someone who is a supporter of Jan and shares
much of her distrust of mainstream medicine. Let's ask someone whose
comments have been archived on this newsgroup (MHA) for several years.
At first, Rod, thought that amalgam removal had greatly improved his
condition (RA).
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/49cdfb908a196ead
More recently, Rod wrote:
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/0593e7afc21ab4f6
The first lines reading:
--------------------
From: Rod - view profile
Date: Tues, Jun 7 2005 9:25 am
Email: "Rod" <deniecer...@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Hi Jan,
Well that is what I wrote nearly three years ago and since that time I
would
say that my health has not improved markedly and has continued to
decline.
More so over the past 12 months.
------------------
He closes with
-----------
"I would ask that you respect my wishes by not quoting my remarks of
2002 as
certainly in 2005, things are not looking decidedly better. I wish this
was
not the case though.
Wishing I could report better times.
Sincerely, Rod
------------
Let's also take a look at Jan's experience with amalgam removal. It is
quite like Rod's. At first it seemed to work, but that isn't how
things actually turned out. Jan's claims of health improvements were
clearly disproven with her own words.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.health.dental-amalgam/msg/d7b2aa4ff3eaa011?hl=en&;
On June 17, 1999 Jan posted to usenet:I have peripheral neuropathy, and have been searching for a cause for over a
year. I have read Hulda Clark's books where she mentions the mercury problem. I
am only 35 miles from the dentist who sh is speaking with in her book. Dr.
Frank Jerome, who has written "Tooth Truth", a very enlightening book. I had my
first appointment today and 1/4 of my mouth is now mercury free. I go back
tomorrow to get another 1/4 done. Later, I will get my only root canal pulled.
I truly believe this is the cause of my problems. If you have a condition that
the doctors can't find, it is wise to suspect the teeth.
Thanks Again,
Jan
However, the link below shows us that Jan's "relief", like
Rod's, was not due to the reduction of mercury. The amount of
mercury in their bloodstream was actually higher at the time of the
reported relief. Over time, the relief declined and their prior health
problems remained and even worsened.
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.dentistry/msg/1232e6142d1386ab?hl=en&;
Now, in light of the real-life, personal experience of two of MHA's
most pro-alternative posters, what do you see? You see ill-informed
people getting taken advantage of by someone who enjoys a large
financial gain. You see both of these people initially thought they
were better off. Time has shown that it was all an illusion born of
suggestibility. Having so much time, money, belief, and pain invested
into this process, they wanted to believe despite the facts. Their
experience is far from unusual.
What is unusual is for people so heavily invested to consider they made
a mistake. I salute Rod for not only admitting this to himself, but
also to the readers of MHA. He went even further by asking that people
not quote his prior endorsment of amalgam removal. It appears that he,
unlike Jan, doesn't want others to suffer unnecessarily.
Kudos, Rod! I only hope your cautionary tale isn't lost on these
closed-minded types.
Cues:
Cue Jan to respond with rabid antisemitism.
Cue her to justify her hatred against all jews because she doesn't like
me. Cue her to say that lying comes second nature to all jews.
Cue her to ignore the clear debunking of amalgam removal and continue
to lie about her experience.
Cue Peterb to ignore these real-life experiences of real-life
supporters of alternative methods.
Cue Peterb to accuse me of being on BigPharma's payroll.
Cue Peterb not to site any better quality studies in favor of amalgam
removal.
Sad, that.
Output from ARIN WHOIS
Search results for: 24.172.29.10
OrgName: Road Runner HoldCo LLC
OrgID: RCMS
Address: 13241 Woodland Park Road
City: Herndon
StateProv: VA
PostalCode: 20171
Country: US
Subject changed: Paranoia Spread by Jan Drew
The One True Zhen Jue" <Andrew_King...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:1155694755.504458.210830@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Please note that message was nuked by Andrew
Original subject: EVIDENCE-BASED FEAR SPREAD BY THE MEDICAL PROFESSION
Path: g2news2.google.com!news4.google.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!border2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!pd7cy3no!shaw.ca!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr27.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!6c044f75!not-for-mail
From: "Jan Drew" <jdrew1...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative,sci.med,talk.politics.medicine,alt.support.breast-implant,uk.people.health,misc.kids.health
Subject: EVIDENCE-BASED FEAR SPREAD BY THE MEDICAL PROFESSION
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Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 21:36:54 GMT
http://209.15.36.125/frinfo.htm
Excerpt:
EVIDENCE-BASED FEAR SPREAD BY THE MEDICAL PROFESSION
32 WAYS THAT DOCTORS PUT YOUR LIFE AND HEALTH IN DANGER BY NOT TELLING YOU
THE WHOLE TRUTH OR GIVING YOU ALL THE OPTIONS
1. According to a report in Alternative Therapies in 2003, the modern
hospital is an exceedingly dangerous place. Approximately 225,000 Americans
die in hospitals annually from the side effects of medications and because
of medical errors. Another 103,000 die each year from the 2 million
infections that they catch after they are admitted to the hospital (one
infection for every 20 admissions). Hospitalization is the third-leading
cause of death. Only cancer and heart disease kill more.
2. Outpatient drug side effects are responsible for sending
25,000-50,000 patients per year to the hospital. Cohen, Overdose
3. Permanent brain damage is noted in 42-80% of people as a
complication of undergoing bypass surgery. Family Practice News
4. 80% of bypass surgery is unnecessary, according to Harvard
University. Although not recommended by Harvard, chelation therapy is a
much safer treatment for coronary artery and other vascular problems.
Grayboys
5. At least 75% of coronary artery catheterizations are unnecessary,
also according to Harvard. And once in a while someone dies from this test.
Once you get such a test, minor abnormalities are often found that the
doctor uses to pressure you into having unnecessary surgery. Grayboys
6. If you are in the hospital, the chances are good that your insurance
company will pressure your doctor to send you home before you are ready, to
save them money.
AMA News
7. One of the most common orthopedic surgeries, arthroscopic surgery of
the knee, gets worse results than a sham surgery that creates a wound but
does nothing else.
Family Practice News
8. For most cases of coronary artery disease, the mortality rate is no
better with surgical therapy than with medical therapy. We do far more
bypass procedures in the USA than anywhere else. JAMA
9. A major hospital chain (Tenet) in California in 2003 paid a $54
million fine because doctors at their hospitals performed hundreds of
unnecessary invasive cardiac procedures-including some that led to death-to
increase profits. This is the tip of the iceberg. AMA News
~~~~
Traced by to 2001 when he used jkingoff@xxxxxxx
Path: supernews.google.com!sn-xit-03!supernews.com!cyclone-sjo1.usenetserver.com!news-out-sjo.usenetserver.com!europa.netcrusader.net!152.163.239.130!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
Lines: 5
X-Admin: n...@xxxxxxx
From: jking...@xxxxxxx (JKingoff)
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
Date: 12 Apr 2001 04:33:07 GMT
References: <YE8B6.47$yh.10725@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Subject: Re: The Tools "Qi-Challege"
Message-ID: <20010412003307.20577.00003029@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Fair enough.
Email me with the details at:
andrew_king...@xxxxxxxxx
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/821ec5fe81d8a932 Subject: Bill for Banning Amalgam Reintroduced Sept 7 2006 Path: g2news2.google.com!postnews.google.com!i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com!not-for-mailFrom: "James Drew (Suffering Mightily)" <suffering_james_d...@xxxxxxxxx>Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative,sci.med.dentistry,sci.med,misc.kids.health,misc.headlinesSubject: Re: Bill for Banning Amalgam ReintroducedDate: 7 Sep 2006 04:26:01 -0700Organization: http://groups.google.comLines: 86Message-ID: <1157628361.296502.219960@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>References: <5AtJg.1967$Cq4.371@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> <1157139100.100735.249890@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> <1157243594.954413.73580@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> <uq6lf2prc152qnip3v24914rqa924pab7v@xxxxxxx> <1157497327.262868.190330@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> <963sf2ddgq2vfkj2c289svj72gve4rkg9k@xxxxxxx> <1157567901.428423.11670@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> <akeuf2t1givlcui07gnkv3auenl0ldfifd@xxxxxxx> <ZzHLg.48276$w7.2279@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> <XHNLg.16211$1f6.11415@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.184.40.47Mime-Version: 1.0Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"X-Trace: posting.google.com 1157628366 23040 127.0.0.1 (7 Sep 2006 11:26:06 GMT)X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 11:26:06 +0000 (UTC)In-Reply-To: <XHNLg.16211$1f6.11415@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>User-Agent: G2/0.2X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; SV1; .NET CLR 1.0.3705; Media Center PC 4.0; .NET CLR 1.1.4322),gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe)Complaints-To: groups-abuse@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx: i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com; posting-host=65.184.40.47; posting-account=TW3lbg0AAAAIAGZUQVm2c4_mhrmYE0fCJan Drew wrote:> "Sdores" <sdo...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message> news:ZzHLg.48276$w7.2279@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> >I still would like to know why only a certain amount claim toxicity from> >amalgams but most don't and the big question I have is if it is so toxic> >why aren't dentists sick with all these diseases? I saw my dentist last> >month and yes he spoke to me about amalgams and how they can be dangerous.> >UM MOM Susan> >> http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/70225338ad2f81bc?hl=en&;>> Nov 1 2005>> I've asked this before Peter but I would like if you would your opinion on> this. Why does the mercury in amalgams effect only a few and why aren't> more dentists and others in the dental field that have contact with it have> poisoning? UM MOM Susan>> http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/dc7b29723561b614?hl=en&;>> "Sdores" <sdo...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message>>> news:siS9f.31534$_31.18401@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>> > I've asked this before Peter but I would like if you would your opinion on> > this. Why does the mercury in amalgams effect only a few and why aren't> > more dentists and others in the dental field that have contact with it> > have poisoning? UM MOM Susan>>> I realize you are asking, Peter.>> The FACT is, *I* have answered both of these questioned MANY times.>The FACT, Jan, is that you lie about amalgams & thimerosal. The FACTis that this song reminds me of you, dear Jan.Sung to the tune of Heavy Metal by Don Felder, not the song of the sametitle by Sammy Hagar. It wouldn't hurt to hear the song before readingthis...)Light a cig up & booze awhileLeave the truth far behindYou can vent your rage at the ADAOr claim that all the Jews here are liarsBut if you're ready to lie into overdriveBoyd Haley's the man you needTo post lies so insaneDebunked and arcaneYou must become a Heavy Metal deceiverOnce you tell Boyd's lies, lies, lies'bout Heavy MetalsIt's the only thing gives you purpose in this lifeSpreading lies, lies, lies, lies'bout Heavy MetalsFacts deniedLying 'bout thimerosalMy, oh my, how this bigot can lieWhen she starts cutting & pastingShe won't put down her boozeNor acknowledge the truthShe didn't get that author's permissionIt's not a big surpriseJan thought loa parasitesWere thriving inside of her colonJan searched through her poohAs Hulda said to doThen became a Heavy Metal deceiverOnce you tell Boyd's lies, lies, lies'bout Heavy MetalsIt's the only thing gives you purpose in this lifeSpreading lies, lies, lies, lies'bout Heavy MetalsFacts denied Lying 'bout thimerosal Heavy Metals 5x and fade out Output from ARIN WHOIS Search results for: 65.184.40.47 OrgName: Road Runner HoldCo LLC
OrgID: RRMA
Address: 13241 Woodland Park Road
City: Herndon
StateProv: VA
PostalCode: 20171
Country: US
[http://www.kingoffacupuncture.com/ Andrew Kingoff, L.Ac. State License] Path: g2news2.google.com!postnews.google.com!h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
From: Andrew_King...@xxxxxxxxx
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative,sci.med.dentistry
Subject: Re: FDA admits Mercury in dentistry MIGHT indeed be HARMFUL
Date: 15 Sep 2006 11:34:38 -0700
Organization: http://groups.google.com
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Injection-Info: h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com; posting-host=24.172.29.10;
posting-account=aIuHfQ0AAADyGxRsUFmSTVE_YwfQuJDr
PeterB wrote:
David Wright wrote:
> In article <1158264045.421323.31...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
> PeterB <p...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> >Clinton wrote:
> >> PeterB wrote:
> >> > I could care less how people make a living, Markey. The issue is
> >> > whether a product or medical procedure puts the public at undue > >> > risk.
> >> > Forensic studies have linked mercury exposure to increased > >> > secretion of
> >> > amyloid protein and hyper-phosphorylation of a protein referred to > >> > as
> >> > Tau (1), which means mercury amalgam may be an undue risk for a > >> > small
> >> > percentage of people.
> >>
> >> There is even a more basic problem. All amalgams look the same but
> >> they are not of the same quality. A poorly constructed amalgam can
> >> "come apart" over time giving off much more Hg. Some also interact
> >> galvanically with nearby amalgams, or other dental metals which > >> greatly
> >> increases the Hg release.
> >>
> >> Finally bacteria on the surface of amalgam can and do methylate the
> >> Hg in some cases. A poorly constructed amalgam is actually porous and
> >> can be invaded by bacteria which can undergo electrochemical > >> reactions
> >> with the amalgam. Methyl Hg is more more toxic
> >
> >Right, and that exposure may be linked to neurological diseases. I
> >can't think of any reason to continue using mercury in dentistry, since
> >other materials are available.
>
> I can. Some people are allergic to the other materials, and amalgam
> is cheap and durable. Shucks, I have two amalgam fillings.
Ok, let's ask everyone who knows they are allergic to the other
materials to choose something with mercury in it, in case the risk of
alzheimers, multiple sclerosis, or early death is more appealing to
them. [ref. Bates MN, Fawcett J, Garrett N, Cutress T, Kjellstrom T.
The beneficial effect of amalgam replacement on health in patients with
autoimmunity. Neuro Endocrinol Lett. 2004 Jun;25(3):211-8. PMID
15349088.]
PeterB
Peterb, you've sited a non-replicated study of 35 people without a
control group. Is it the best evidence you could find? You always
demand much higher standards for other procedures and pharmaceuticals.
Why settle for so much less when dealing with the risky process of
removing amalgams from people who already have autoimmune disorders?
If I recall correctly, you said: "I could care less how people make a
living, Markey. The issue is whether a product or medical procedure
puts the public at undue risk." Amalgam removal has clear risks and
nebulous benefits. It is far more profitable to removal than install
amalgams. (Do follow the money, Peterb.)
What are the benefits of amalgam removal? Let's ask someone with
real-life experience with autoimmune disease and amalgams. After all,
on MHA, real-life experience always trumps objectively verifiable,
replicable studes. Let's ask someone who is clearly in favor of health
alternatives. Let's ask someone who is a supporter of Jan and shares
much of her distrust of mainstream medicine. Let's ask someone whose
comments have been archived on this newsgroup (MHA) for several years.
At first, Rod, thought that amalgam removal had greatly improved his
condition (RA).
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/49cdfb908a196ead
More recently, Rod wrote:
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/0593e7afc21ab4f6
The first lines reading:
--------------------
From: Rod - view profile
Date: Tues, Jun 7 2005 9:25 am
Email: "Rod" <deniecer...@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Hi Jan,
Well that is what I wrote nearly three years ago and since that time I
would
say that my health has not improved markedly and has continued to
decline.
More so over the past 12 months.
------------------
He closes with
-----------
"I would ask that you respect my wishes by not quoting my remarks of
2002 as
certainly in 2005, things are not looking decidedly better. I wish this
was
not the case though.
Wishing I could report better times.
Sincerely, Rod
------------
Let's also take a look at Jan's experience with amalgam removal. It is
quite like Rod's. At first it seemed to work, but that isn't how
things actually turned out. Jan's claims of health improvements were
clearly disproven with her own words.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.health.dental-amalgam/msg/d7b2aa4ff3eaa011?hl=en&;
On June 17, 1999 Jan posted to usenet:I have peripheral neuropathy, and have been searching for a cause for over a
year. I have read Hulda Clark's books where she mentions the mercury problem. I
am only 35 miles from the dentist who sh is speaking with in her book. Dr.
Frank Jerome, who has written "Tooth Truth", a very enlightening book. I had my
first appointment today and 1/4 of my mouth is now mercury free. I go back
tomorrow to get another 1/4 done. Later, I will get my only root canal pulled.
I truly believe this is the cause of my problems. If you have a condition that
the doctors can't find, it is wise to suspect the teeth.
Thanks Again,
Jan
However, the link below shows us that Jan's "relief", like
Rod's, was not due to the reduction of mercury. The amount of
mercury in their bloodstream was actually higher at the time of the
reported relief. Over time, the relief declined and their prior health
problems remained and even worsened.
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.dentistry/msg/1232e6142d1386ab?hl=en&;
Now, in light of the real-life, personal experience of two of MHA's
most pro-alternative posters, what do you see? You see ill-informed
people getting taken advantage of by someone who enjoys a large
financial gain. You see both of these people initially thought they
were better off. Time has shown that it was all an illusion born of
suggestibility. Having so much time, money, belief, and pain invested
into this process, they wanted to believe despite the facts. Their
experience is far from unusual.
What is unusual is for people so heavily invested to consider they made
a mistake. I salute Rod for not only admitting this to himself, but
also to the readers of MHA. He went even further by asking that people
not quote his prior endorsment of amalgam removal. It appears that he,
unlike Jan, doesn't want others to suffer unnecessarily.
Kudos, Rod! I only hope your cautionary tale isn't lost on these
closed-minded types.
Cues:
Cue Jan to respond with rabid antisemitism.
Cue her to justify her hatred against all jews because she doesn't like
me. Cue her to say that lying comes second nature to all jews.
Cue her to ignore the clear debunking of amalgam removal and continue
to lie about her experience.
Cue Peterb to ignore these real-life experiences of real-life
supporters of alternative methods.
Cue Peterb to accuse me of being on BigPharma's payroll.
Cue Peterb not to site any better quality studies in favor of amalgam
removal.
Sad, that.
Output from ARIN WHOIS Search results for: 24.172.29.10 OrgName: Road Runner HoldCo LLC
OrgID: RCMS
Address: 13241 Woodland Park Road
City: Herndon
StateProv: VA
PostalCode: 20171
Country: US
Subject changed: Paranoia Spread by Jan Drew The One True Zhen Jue" <Andrew_King...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:1155694755.504458.210830@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx note that message was nuked by Andrew Original subject: EVIDENCE-BASED FEAR SPREAD BY THE MEDICAL PROFESSIONPath: g2news2.google.com!news4.google.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!border2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!pd7cy3no!shaw.ca!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr27.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!6c044f75!not-for-mail
From: "Jan Drew" <jdrew1...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative,sci.med,talk.politics.medicine,alt.support.breast-implant,uk.people.health,misc.kids.health
Subject: EVIDENCE-BASED FEAR SPREAD BY THE MEDICAL PROFESSION
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X-UserInfo1: TSU[@I_AOPT[B_\YYJ_BZ]EJUSXB@DTMNHWB_EYLJZ]BGIELNVUEAE[YETZPIWWI[FCIZA^NBFXZ_D[BFNTCNVPDTNTKHWXKB@X^B_OCJLPZ@ET_O[G\XSG@E\G[ZKVLBL^CJINM@I_KVIOR\T_M_AW_M[_BWU_HFA_]@A_A^SGFAUDE_DFTMQPFWVW[QPJN
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 21:36:54 GMT
http://209.15.36.125/frinfo.htm
Excerpt:
EVIDENCE-BASED FEAR SPREAD BY THE MEDICAL PROFESSION
32 WAYS THAT DOCTORS PUT YOUR LIFE AND HEALTH IN DANGER BY NOT TELLING YOU
THE WHOLE TRUTH OR GIVING YOU ALL THE OPTIONS
1. According to a report in Alternative Therapies in 2003, the modern
hospital is an exceedingly dangerous place. Approximately 225,000 Americans
die in hospitals annually from the side effects of medications and because
of medical errors. Another 103,000 die each year from the 2 million
infections that they catch after they are admitted to the hospital (one
infection for every 20 admissions). Hospitalization is the third-leading
cause of death. Only cancer and heart disease kill more.
2. Outpatient drug side effects are responsible for sending
25,000-50,000 patients per year to the hospital. Cohen, Overdose
3. Permanent brain damage is noted in 42-80% of people as a
complication of undergoing bypass surgery. Family Practice News
4. 80% of bypass surgery is unnecessary, according to Harvard
University. Although not recommended by Harvard, chelation therapy is a
much safer treatment for coronary artery and other vascular problems.
Grayboys
5. At least 75% of coronary artery catheterizations are unnecessary,
also according to Harvard. And once in a while someone dies from this test.
Once you get such a test, minor abnormalities are often found that the
doctor uses to pressure you into having unnecessary surgery. Grayboys
6. If you are in the hospital, the chances are good that your insurance
company will pressure your doctor to send you home before you are ready, to
save them money.
AMA News
7. One of the most common orthopedic surgeries, arthroscopic surgery of
the knee, gets worse results than a sham surgery that creates a wound but
does nothing else.
Family Practice News
8. For most cases of coronary artery disease, the mortality rate is no
better with surgical therapy than with medical therapy. We do far more
bypass procedures in the USA than anywhere else. JAMA
9. A major hospital chain (Tenet) in California in 2003 paid a $54
million fine because doctors at their hospitals performed hundreds of
unnecessary invasive cardiac procedures-including some that led to death-to
increase profits. This is the tip of the iceberg. AMA News
~~~~ Traced by to 2001 when he used jkingoff@xxxxxxxxxxx: supernews.google.com!sn-xit-03!supernews.com!cyclone-sjo1.usenetserver.com!news-out-sjo.usenetserver.com!europa.netcrusader.net!152.163.239.130!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
Lines: 5
X-Admin: n...@xxxxxxx
From: jking...@xxxxxxx (JKingoff)
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
Date: 12 Apr 2001 04:33:07 GMT
References: <YE8B6.47$yh.10725@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Subject: Re: The Tools "Qi-Challege"
Message-ID: <20010412003307.20577.00003029@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Fair enough.
Email me with the details at:
andrew_king...@xxxxxxxxx
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/2c37faabc4211c16 June 7 2000 Andrew Kingoff <aking...@xxxxxxxxxx> writes: > jbai...@xxxxxxx (John Bain) wrote: >>In this case, Andrew stated that the Florida statutes defined >'disharmonies'. >>It is obvious from the statutes, which are on-line, that they do not. >There is no need to bother anyone else. >Wrong again, John. I gave the number for the Acupuncture Board. Do >you think they won't know the scope of practice or that disharmonies >(acupuncture diagnoses) are valid diagnoses in Florida? That is not what you said, Andrew. You insisted that 'disharmonies' were defined in the Florida statutes. They are not. >Do you think >that my school's academic dean wouldn't know our licensing and >accreditation? Quite irrelevant, the legal definition of disharmonies is the issue.. >This is sad, John. You hate sarcasm so badly that >you are willing to lie in order to call me a liar. You are the one who said 'disharmonies' was defined in the Florida statutes. Do you deny this? kaalga has posted and reposted your exact words. >You know that licensing board & my school's academic dean >are VALID sources on this topic. You are lying in order to further >Kaalga's lie and demonstrate that beautifully in your Evasion >of confirmation. Bad Boy, Johnny! They have nothing to do with the Florida Statutes, which are available on-line for anyone to read. Unfortunately you eiither cannot understand them, or you are a liar. >>He hopes we will give up and go on to another topic and let him get away >>with deliberately trying to deceive. >Yes, that is my motive for posting the phone# of the licensing board. >I'm hoping to obscure the topic by insisting that you confirm my >claims. Exactly, the licensing board is not responsible for the Florida Statutes. They license. >I have contacted Habib who has agreed to call my school on behalf >of the NG. He will ask the academic dean the pertinate questions >and any others have may have and will post the results. He will be >back from vacation around the 14th, so it will posted sometime after >that. What questions, Andrew. The only answer we wish from you is the number of the Florida statute which defines 'disharmonies' or an apology for stating it did. That is the issue and you will not be allowed to evade it. >I understand your weakness in not being able to separate the messenger >from the facts. You represent this constantly and not just on this >topic. Only messengers who deliberately lie to try and win points. > You are blinded by your aversion to my prior sarcasm that >you simply must label me a liar. No, your words make the case. You said 'disharmonies' was defined in the Florida statutes. It is not. You lied to make a point. >You have gone so far as to >speculate that my school wouldn't have anyone who could handle the >call without even anecdotal evidence. Ditto for the State Board. Please tell us why you think there is an expert in the Florida Statutes at your school and which statute they would refer us to. Ditto the licensing board. All we need is the statute number for 'disharmonies' and they can not supply that because it does not exist. >So, if Habib told you he called my school, spoke with the Dean, and >confirmed what I said, would you accept Habib's word? Not without the statute number. We are only interested in the number of the statute which defines 'disharmonies'. >Even if you >don't believe the information itself, would you not accept his account >of the incident as far as what he asked & heard? Irrelevant, Statute number is all we need. But we have already examined the statutes and there is no reference to 'disharmonies' there. >If you won't take my word nor that of the institutions involved nor >that of a neutral 3rd party, then you have clearly labeled your >position. Statute number or apology. Our position is perfectly clear. You stated several times that 'disharmonies' was defined in the Florida statutes. Either give us the statute number or aplologise for making the mistake. Perfectly simple Andrew. Stop dodging the issue. Admit you made a mistake. Or be branded a liar. Best wishes -- John Bain UK TV Sound Director, magnotherapy user & distributor http://members.aol.com/JBainSI/Magnotherapy.html Surround Sound for Television
.
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