About cancer anecdote


"Vakker" <Vakker@xxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:jbZ_f.4571$P01.4293@xxxxxxxxxxx

"Peter Moran" <pmoran@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
<snip a lot>
Not so. History shows that hardly anyone with cancer know-how is
impressed
by retrospective picking of the cherries out of cases that could number
in
the thousands, nor by being required to give full face value to
historical
material that they are unable to examine personally or double check.
You
are not dealing here only with the AMA or the FDA or other bete-noirs of
American parochialism. Is even one scientist or doctor worldwide
sufficiently impressed by Revici's work to be now following it up?

Gonzales did a small prospective study of a mere eleven patients with
pancreatic cancer and there is now a 1.3 million dollar trial of his
method.
Does that tell you anything?


You unreasonable demand has lost its impact. Flesh and blood results
beat your theoretical demands every time.


Do you even have the slightest comprehension of what I mean by a simple
planned prospective study looking for objective responses of cancer?
There is nothing theoretical about it. It simply ensures that the
evidence
is of the highest standard, that it is publishable in the best places,
that
it will stand up to any examination, and so long as the good cases are
occurring with sufficient frequency it allows the probability of a true
treatment effects to be clearly demosntrated.

I will tell you why such studies are NOT done. Most of the time these
methods don't work, and the proponents don't want to reveal that. The
hordes of dead patients are unseen, buried.

Other alternative proponents have claimed fifty per cent or more cure
rates
with supposedly incurable cancer. Yet when you look at their true
results
you find that at least most fo the time the methods don't work. See
http://members.bordernet.com.au/~pmoran/cancer/Alternative_studies.htm
I suspect that if we were able to examine Revici's cases we would find a
similar pattern - in fact that is what doctors have found when they have
looked, according to the information I posted previously.

I think we have exhausted the subject. I am exhausted, certainly.

Peter Moran

Does Peter Moran still say that a patient's testimony about his/her own
health is only anecdotal therefore useless in evaluating whether a
treatment
has cured that patient? If you have 100 or 1000 such patient testimonials
about a certain treatment's efficaciousness you will not accept it because
it's "ONLY" anecdotal-(in which you're saying patients don't whether or
not
they've been cured) and has not been studied, tested - not according to
correct methodology though - and results printed in some pharma owned
journal?
The person coming into your office cured from lung cancer with
mets ------
you would not even pick up the phone to check out how he got cured from
the
incurable because there has not been a study done on this treatment which
has been published in some journal which has a big conflict of interest
due
to it's being maintained solely by pharma ads and grants????
This is what you have admitted to here. You wouldn't so much as lift your
finger to find out what happened to this patient who should be dead but is
there alive right before your eyes. Such a fellow as you is not to be
listened to. I wouldn't want you for my Doctor.


This is a complete mischaracterisation of what I was saying, or at least
intended. Unlike many sceptics, I believe anecdotal information can carry
considerable weight where cancer remission or cure is concerned. I explain
why at
http://members.bordernet.com.au/~pmoran/cancer/Showing_it_works_1.htm

There are two main problems with it.

Firstly, it can be of extremely variable quality. The lung cancer case of
the anonymous one is of very low quality because he cannot document that
such a case ever existed. It appears that at minimum it did not in the
context in which I am being asked to respond to it.

The brain tumour case is of low to medium quality because we are not told
what surgery was done, many brain tumours are very slowly growing, and the
story depends upon assumptions as to prognosis rather than the frank and
obvious disappearance of established cancer, as applies in high quality
anecdote.. Get my drift?

Most (but not all) patient testimonial is of very low quality, usually
because of obviously false assumptions as to prognosis or what it was that
produced any beneficial effects. If you cannot see that, it simply
reflects your lack of knowledge about cancer, its normal range of behaviours
and its response to different treatments. Again I give examples on my web
site.

The second difficulty is knowing how much significance to apply to small
numbers of anecdote, even if of good quality (which they invariably aren't),
when drawn from a population of hundreds or thousands. This is where
simple, even primitive, planned prospective studies (not elaborate
controlled trials) can make the very same cases carry far more weight.
They will be better documented and followed up and we may also by this means
get to know that the treatment works at a *measurable rate*, not so rarely
as to raise questions as to whether it played any role at all in the good
outcome. Cancer is mostly predictable, but not completely predictable.
That is all I am saying.

And of course 100 or 1000 reports *of good quality* would never be ignored.
That is a ridiculous thing to say. In fact, on my web site I issue a
challenge for anyone to produce even two or three cases of well-documented
cancer remission with certain types of cancer, with the promise that they
will be taken seriously (spread the word about). So far no takers. I
wonder why? I also explain there why one case might spark some interest,
but not a lot on its own.

I have listened to your viewpoint. Now try to understand mine better.
Look at my web site.


Peter Moran

www.cancerwatcher.com



.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Need advice on clinical trials
    ... stage II cancer of the larynx. ... The patient complained of plained of progressive ... artesunate treatment was started on 01/22/2001. ... treatment with artemisinin and its analogs with promising results. ...
    (sci.med.diseases.cancer)
  • Re: Virtually Zero Alternative Cancer Research Occurirng
    ... treatment...also said surgery alone in many cases is all that is ... patient feel good...after the surgery etc has removed the cancer ... Homeopathy are there to make the patient feel good after the surgery ... part is considered sufficient treatment, ...
    (misc.health.alternative)
  • Re: A good question - why not use Revici?
    ... I don't know the specifics on this one, but if the patient ... worst thing that could happen is that the cancer doesn't go away. ... One is about the science of it - how can you know when a cancer treatment ... It's called "Assumption of Risk." ...
    (misc.health.alternative)
  • Re: Virtually Zero Alternative Cancer Research Occurirng
    ... my point...surgery is still the primary treatment at these Cancer ... treatment...also said surgery alone in many cases is all that is ... I agree with your comment about what is the primary treatment at these ... Homeopathy are there to make the patient feel good after the surgery ...
    (misc.health.alternative)
  • Re: Low plattet questions
    ... You would never tell a patient ... effects yet when you hear cancer you say aim for quality of life. ... but once treatment starts to cause more harm ...
    (sci.med.diseases.cancer)