Re: The Cancer Challenge


"Max C." <maxc246@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1143769600.128637.152040@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
The problem is that they just don't work, noticeably. There can be no
real
doubt about that. Most of the methods analysed on my web site include
the
usually recommended diets and supplements. Hoffer/Pauling's
orthomolecular
treatment has been shown not to work in a cohort study.

I mean no disrespect when I say this, but the "usually recommended
diets and supplements" are absolute crap. I'd go toe to toe with any
nutritionist any day of the week and get better results.

I was referring specifically to those recommended in alternaitve circles,
not nutritionists. I had in mind the studies examined at
http://members.bordernet.com.au/~pmoran/cancer/Alternative_studies.htm
hwerein a variety of dietary regimes were used and also the studies on
Hoffer's orthomolecular patients .

What do you know that these clinics, practitioners, and alternative using
patients don't know, and is there any firmer basis for it than these now
largely discredited claims?
..
That's
because current nutritional knowledge has been skewed. Of course there
are tons of conspiracy theories about how and why they are skewed and I
really don't care to get in to that here. The bottom line, though, is
that history, not science, should be our guide to the foods we eat.

We doctors also have a lot of personal experience of our patients trying
these methods - probably,collectively,more than anyone. Of course it
can be argued that we are ignoring spectacular results but I never saw
any,
and my oncologist colleagues report the same.

I can appreciate that you have a lot of hands-on experience. There's
nothing more educating than actually digging in and doing something.
I'm also very impressed by your admission that you don't have all the
answers. That's a rare find in a medical doctor (assuming that's what
you are.) I must ask, though, could it be that you've never seen
spectacular results from nutrition because you've never recommended a
patient eliminate all refined foods, seek out raw milk from grass fed
animals and find a source for high quality, properly fed organ meats?
T oget extreme results, you have to take extreme measures. Obviously,
these foods would have been eaten on a daily basis centuries ago, but
are difficult to find now. Could it be that you haven't used
food-based supplements like those from Standard Process or Medi-Herb?


It sure could, but I am also sure that there is no more evidence for any of
the million other possible dietary and supplement variations that you might
come up with than there was for those that have already been discredited.
I have no need to take this further hypothesis seriously unless you produce
good evidence, particularly as there remian serious plausibility problems
for diet having any effect on established cancer.

I mean no disrespect. I ask those questions as sincerely as possible.

That's fine. I am accustomed to plenty of abuse and it is a change to have
an adult conversation.


Yes, this departs from what you hear in alternative circles, but what do
you
know, really, about those cases? There are innumerable ways in which
testimonials fail to reflect the truth.

You're right. I know nothing about the cases I've read about. While I
also know nothing of the many cases mentioned by Dr. Royal Lee in the
dozens of lecture hours of his I've listened to, I believe him when he
tells of the cures he had seen with food alone. He was highly
respected in his field and often called the "Einstein of nutrition." I
can't imagine that he would have any reason to lie... especially when
his common cure methods only included specific foods and not his own
supplements.

Well, it would be interesting to be able to look through his case notes.
Unfortunately it is very easy to delude yourself when in the thick of cancer
treatment.

However, I DO know of the one case I personally helped with. I know he
was told by 2 doctors that he would die of prostate cancer years ago
and is alive today with a healthy prostate. His only change was his
diet. Medical science did not help him at all.

Well, forgive me for reserving judgement without more details of the case.
I have found so many don't hold water once all the details are known.
Prostate cancer figures in lots of testimonials for various reasons.

I also know that I have witnessed, first hand, a medical doctor
recklessly prescribe chemo to a patient with severe arthritis pain
without exploring a single nutritional option.

I found rheumatoid arthritis patients to be the most sceptical people of
all. Having a long-standing chronic condition they will have tried
*everything* that alternative medicine advises.


Let's just say that I, and a growing percentage of the American
population, are becoming a bit disillusioned with the medical
profession as a whole... partially because of the very reasons I've
mentioned.

The quality of medical care and the degree to which it serves the many
differnet expectations (not only medical) that the public have of it
certainly can vary widely. Nevertheless it does not make sense to hold
alternative medicine to *lower* standards of ethical and scientific
behaviour.

Peter Moran

www.cancerwatcher.com
Thanks for your replies.
Max.



.

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