Re: Greater Regulation of Nutritional Supplements Not Justified (But You Must Take Action To Prevent It)


"PeterB" <pkm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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Mark Probert wrote:
PeterB wrote:
Mark Probert wrote:
PeterB wrote:
Mark Probert wrote:
PeterB wrote:
Mark Probert wrote:
C A III A wrote:
"PeterB" <pkm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1143207428.080817.113520@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sdores wrote:
You are so full of it. When I go in for surgery they demand to
know all
meds including supplements. Just because you can't see any
damage from
them
doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Some cause excess bleeding
like Vitamin
E
and there are more. Get off your high horse already.
Alternates are
Godly
and Rx's are the demon according to you. Well I take both so
what? UM
MOM
Susan
So you're an idiot. Vitamin E has never, will never, cause
excess
bleeding, but Warfarin (coumadin) will. Even if the combination
of
natural and synthetic blood thinners (so-called) results in
abnormally
reduced clotting, it's irrational to lay the blame on essential
nutrients that perform this function with zero risk. Lay the
blame
where it belongs -- on the drug the body has no mean for
controlling.
It's insane to take prescribed coumadin over fibrinogen-reducing
nutrients which work better and without risk. My uncle died
from
internal bleeding while taking coumadin despite not taking
supplements.
Many have. The risk of death goes UP with reduced nutrient
intake, UP
with pharmaceutical drug use, and UP with stupidity.

PeterB

http://www.lifescript.com/channels/well_being/Vitamins/Vitamin_E.asp?Page=4


WOW!

Proof that Petey does not know what he is talking about:

"Vitamin E is a natural blood-thinner, and can negatively
interfere with
blood-thinning medications and aspirin (both of which work to thin
the
blood as well). "

What a maroon!
You're playing dumb even better than usual, Markey.
Petey, please stop projecting, or get a bulb brighter than the one
in
the night light.

Do nutrients
interfere with drugs, or do drugs interefere with nutrients?
Possibly both.
But only one interferes with normal metabolism -- drugs.
Oh? What about those supplements with steroids, etc.?

I said nutrients vs. drugs. You're trying to change the subject.

Our blood
cells require nutrients to maintain normal levels of fibrinogen,
making
drugs dangerous and unncessary. Synthetic blood thinners are a
risk no
one need accept.
Of course, that is based on your non-existent medical knowledge.
So, you disagree then with the following references:
OOPS...your lack of knowledge of the vocabulary is showing...and your
use of a strawman is obvious. We were discussing a different vitamin.

I mentioned vitamins E and K because they are both nutrients,
reciprocal in their blood-thinning effects, and relevant to the
discussion. You yourself brought up steroids, which is clearly just a
diversion (ie., straw man.)

Do try to stay on topic.

If only you were ever ON topic.

On vitamin K as a counter-acting agent to Warfarin: "They also may
give
vitamin K to speed the reversal of warfarin's effects."
http://www.annals.org/cgi/content/full/137/11/I-41

On vitamin E's ability to reduce risk of abnormal clotting: "Among
the
health-promoting actions attributed to vitamin E are its ability to
slow the oxidation of "bad" (LDL) cholesterol, prevent blood clot
formation, enhance immune response, and benefit the nervous system."
http://www.ift.org/cms/?pid=1000972&printable=1

Markey, do you EVER back anything up you say? EVER??
All the time when needed. BTW, the reference to Vitamin E that you
posted shows the mechanism of how it is a natural blood-thinner, and
can
negatively interfere with blood-thinning medications and aspirin (both
of which work to thin the blood as well). Supports my point.

Then provide a reference showing how synthetic blood thinners are less
dangerous than naturally-occuring ones.

No. You go find one showing that natural blood thinners are safer.

Meaning you can't because you know I'm right. Read Dr. Cythia Foster's
book "Stop the Medicine" to learn why drugs are inferior to nutrients.
Also, this from PDR health.com: "The most serious risks associated
with Coumadin treatment are hemorrhage (severe bleeding resulting in
the loss of a large amount of blood) in any tissue or organ and, less
frequently, the destruction of skin tissue cells (necrosis) or
gangrene. The risk of hemorrhage usually depends on the dosage and
length of treatment with Coumadin. Hemorrhage and necrosis have been
reported to result in death or permanent disability. Severe necrosis
can lead to the removal of damaged tissue or amputation of a limb.
Necrosis appears to be associated with blood clots located in the area
of tissue damage and usually occurs within a few days of starting
Coumadin treatment."

I couldn't find anything on a comparable risk from routine
supplementation of vitamin E. Now admit that you lied when you said
you can back up what you say. Admit I'm right that natural food
nutrients don't cause people to bleed to death, but synthetic blood
thinners do.

Now, do explain whether you ever read what you post....

Not only do I have to read what I post, I have to read what you post
and reverse engineer it.

If you reverse engineered the man on the moon program, you would have
wound up at the center of the earth.

Not if you drain out the fuel out beforehand.


Coumadin is very strong and extremely dangerous.
Plavix is safer.
E and garlic are fairly weak. They are good when that is all that is
desired.
Nattokinase is just about as effective as Plavix and works in the same
manner.
High doses of C "apparently" keep clots down, not thru thinning.


.

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