Re: Peter Bowdit the BLATANT LIAR!


Clinton wrote:
> cathyb wrote:
> > Clinton wrote:
> > > cathyb wrote:
> > > >
> > > Show me any large clinical trials that have been undertaken by
> > > the ADA, NIDCR, FDA, NIH etc.
> >
> > You're agreeing there's no evidence then?
> >
>
> Obviously there are 2 parts to this. First proving tht these or similar
> legions exist . Second proving that these legions can cause various
> symptoms.
> As long as no one undertakes a large trial there will be no proof
> however
> there have been a couple small studies indicating a connection. Proof
> is obviously a relative term.
>
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > Here's a minor portion of what Aetna are alleging (taken again from the
> > counterclaim). It's a bit long, but:
> >
> > "22. Advocates of the focal point theory purport to link septic foci to
> > cancer, ALS, arthritis, diseases of the kidney, heart, nervous,
> > gastrointestinal, endocrine and other systems, atherosclerosis,
> > coronary thrombosis, ischemic heart disease and other disease
> > processes.
>
> I think the focal theory would be different from the idea that the
> cavitation generates toxins. IIRC the focal theory is that certain
> bacteria preferentailly infect certain organs. Obviously proving
> this, other than using price's work would require more research.
>
> > Jones, for example, believes that almost all strokes, heart
> > attacks, type II diabetes and cancer can be attributed to these toxins
> > from root canals. Jones claims to have discovered that the presence of
> > such cavitations is a precursor to cancer, multiple sclerosis, heart
> > attacks, stroke, Alzheimer's, autism and other diseases. Jones has
> > applied his theories to himself. Scott McAdoo, formerly licensed as a
> > dentist in the State of Colorado, diagnosed and treated Jones,
> > resulting in the removal of all or nearly all of Jones' teeth
> > purportedly to treat Jones' non-dental, medical problems. Jones
> > claims to have been cured of Lou Gehrig's disease or similar major,
> > debilitating medical conditions as a result.
>
> These legions definelty can pump out toxins, or any type of
> osteonecrotic/
> osteomyletic legions, connecting that to all of the above is obviously
> quite
> a leap but BJ has a right to his ideas.

Having a right to his ideas (he is not actually qualified in the area)
does not extend to a moral right to defraud an insurance company.

>
> >
> > 23. The focal point theory and the treatment of non-dental conditions
> > through oral surgery are inextricably tied to Cavitat, the Cavitat
> > device, the practitioners who use it, and the manner in which they
> > treat their patients.
>
> That statement is false. The cavitat and focal theory for example
> are quite different issues. Price "discovered" this theory in the
> 1920's
> well before the invention of the cavitat.

And the part about treatment?

>
> > Adhering to the focal point theory, biologic
> > dentists advocate the removal of amalgam fillings, root-canalled teeth,
> > and traditional dental work and purport to treat non-dental conditions
> > by removing healthy teeth and performing invasive cavitational
> > surgeries on patients who frequently have no symptoms of maxillofacial
> > pain-the "neuralgia" that NICO is purported to induce.
>
> Again I don't think anyone contests that infected bone can produce
> toxins. The bacteria produce these toxins. For example osteomyletis
> can cause general lethargy. It would also not be correct to say that
> all biological dentists adhere to the focal point theory, in that there
> concern may be more with toxin production.

That doesn't actually address the point.

> >
> > 24. Margolis is but one example of this type of practitioner. Margolis
> > has given lectures at "conferences" conducted by the
> > Counterclaim-Defendants. Without limitation, Margolis lectured at the
> > Second Cavitat Educational Conference held August 23-24, 2002 and the
> > Fourth Cavitat Educational Conference held August 8-9, 2004. In
> > promoting the sale and use of the Cavitat device at those conferences,
> > Margolis presented case studies in which he performed oral surgery
> > involving the excision of jaw bone material, the removal of teeth, and
> > the insertion of purported bone-generating material in the jaws of
> > patients who presented complaining of recurrent infection, "low
> > metabolism," "no energy," "no sex drive," allergies,
> > gastrointestinal problems, chest pains, low blood pressure, "easily
> > winded," thyroid problems, severe fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue,
> > hepatitis C, "frequently tired," "overweight," arthritis, and
> > "no energy, no life." Jones boasted that Margolis did this type of
> > surgery "almost every day, if not every day."
>
> Certainly any type of jaw legion can have systematic effects. Look
> at how infections in the leg bone are treated. Scientifically there
> is no evidence to prove or disprove the above. It really depends on
> how you characterise these legions, but if a cavitation is composed
> of bacteria obviously this could adversely affect someones health in
> many ways.

You're simply showing that this is in fact an "experimental and
investigational" issue. BTW, it's spelt lesion. Sorry, but it was
starting to bug me.

>
> >
> > 25. Margolis specifically recommended the extraction of five healthy
> > teeth for a patient, "K.B.," and was later disciplined by the
> > Arizona State Board of Medical Examiners. Margolis claimed that he was
> > referred this patient to coordinate treatment by a "heath food store
> > operator." K.B.'s top five medical complaints were completely
> > non-dental: "Anemia, Kidneys (Don't Break Down Animal Proteins),
> > Hypothyroid, Allergies - Liver/overactive immune system,
> > Hypoglycemia."
>
> Well , you may be interested to know that individuals I have talked
> to with osteonecrosis have had thyroid and liver problems so stating
> that these symptoms are always non-dental is false, in that it
> subsribes to
> a theory that no dental condition can have effects beyond the teeth.

I'm sorry, but many people have co-incident medical problems. I may
have toothache and cancer; this does not mean they are related.


> Could a bactrial legion in the leg cause systemic problems? You bet.
> The bacteria that produce these legion pump out gallons of toxins.
> Yeah, they can cause all sorts of problems, but on the other hand
> there is no way to say what health problems may or may not be
> linked to a given dental condition. Obviously many or most
> medical condtions are not dental.
>
> >here are no clinical studies to "prove it" and obviously
> > (spelling corrected). Ironically, Margolis advised
> > providers at Cavitat seminars how to attempt to avoid discipline by
> > dental boards by papering a patient's record with aggressive and
> > self-serving "informed consent" documentation, unlike those used by
> > mainstream practitioners.
>
> This boils down to infection detection. Many times infection in the
> jaw is not detectable until half the bone is destroyed. As you see
> ratener legions are not visible on x-ray. I do think
> that a patient has the right to have surgery done if history indicates
> there may be an infection. On the other hand unnecessary surgery
> can also be done or a patient might falsely believe that should have
> surgery done because of false "self diagnosis".
> There is really no way to resolve this issue until diagnostic
> procedures
> are improved.

One of Aetna's points.

>
>
> > 26. Key to Margolis' brand of dentistry is the "preparation" of
> > his patients, "not only physically, but emotionally and
> > nutritionally." Among the preparation is "hydrocolon therapy" or
> > what he crudely calls "a tube up the booty, cleans things out. And
> > some of my patients sit there and go, 'Ooh.' But, oh, if you're
> > going to put all these toxins in the body, you've got to make sure
> > they come out . . . ." After surgery, he relies upon nutritional
> > regimens and anodyne lights.
>
> Obviously a controversial area that should depend on whether Aetna
> covers alternative treatments for jaw surgery.
>
> >
> > 27. Indeed, the "Cavitation Surgery Protocol" calls for preparing a
> > patient for surgery by:
> >
> > "Vegetable Juicing,"
> > "Colon Cleansing,"
> > "Supplementation" with cod liver oil, digestive enzymes,
> > proteolytic enzymes, calcium, magnesium, B vitamins,
> > "Exercise" such as rebounding on a mini-trampoline to increase
> > circulation and enhance lymphatic drainage, as well as
> > "Skin Brushing" to enhance lymph drainage. "
>
> Each dentist who does this surgery as far as I know would have their
> own ideas. I don't know if there is any such thing as "cavitation
> protocol". There are however certian techniques for finding and
> removing thiese legions which would be similar to osteonecrosis or
> osteomyletis surgery. When an area is infected and or necrotic you
> could call it whatever you want. "cavitational" "osteonecrotice" etc.
> If some dentists or even uniersity OS's want to treat it with a juicer
> Aetna cetainly has the right to deny that treatment. Antiboitic
> followup should also be used, but I think it would be covered
> as a medical expense depending on what the biopsy says.
>
> >
> > So these are the sort of treatments Aetna are refusing to pay for. And
> > here's how Cavitat allegedly try to defraud:
> >
> >
> > 82. Counterclaim-Defendants know that Aetna does not cover NICO-related
> > services.
>
> IMO they should cover the jaw surgery if biopsy reveals there was a
> legion.
> Maybe they do.

Dunno. Their gripe is fraudulent claims.

>
> Counterclaim-Defendants likewise know that Aetna does not
> > cover the treatment of non-dental conditions through dental surgery
> > based upon the toxicity and focal point theories shared by the
> > Counterclaim-Defendants and their customers. Counterclaim-Defendants
> > know that if a claim is submitted to Aetna that truthfully and
> > prominently disclosed that NICO was the condition being treated or that
> > oral surgical procedures were being undertaken to treat non-dental
> > conditions, the claim would not be paid.
>
> I wonder what other condition could be substitued to justify paying for
> a juicer? Again it seems the issue should be settled upon biopsy and
> certainly Aetna has no duty to pay for adjunct treatments or the
> Cavitat except appropriate antiboitics and/ or whatever alternative
> treatments they cover.
> Nerve pain and so on can be treated and diagnosed separatley.
>
> > 83. At its "conferences," Cavitat had its speakers preach the value
> > of charging the patient cash "up front" for surgery and diagnosis
> > followed by the submission of claims for dental services sometimes
> > disguised as medical codes on a fee-for-service basis. Cavitat offered
> > "assistance" on how to create invoices that disguised that the
> > diagnosis, surgery and treatment was for NICO and also furnished
> > boilerplate operative notes to induce the patient to apply for
>
> Paying cash up front is okay , because many patients attempt to
> defraud surgeons by not paying later. If the biopsy was clearly
> fraudulent after
> the surgery obviously that would be wrong be would involve a lot
> of fraud by the lab.

Here, you're again assuming that the lesions are a problem, which is
unproven. And:

"39. Primarily, Cavitat directed these biopsy samples to be sent for
analysis to a for-profit laboratory owned by Dr. Bouquot in West
Virginia known as Head & Neck Diagnostics of America. Almost without
fail, Dr. Bouquet's pathology reports confirm the questionable clinical
diagnosis of the practitioner. Practitioners then use the pathology
report as an after-the-fact justification for the already completed
surgery and the bills submitted for payment in connection with the
treatment.

40. Dr. Bouquot coined the terms NICO and maxillofacial osteonecrosis.
He is sympathetic to the efforts of Cavitat to gain mainstream
acceptance for treating these purported conditions by invasive surgical
intervention. He also has a monetary interest in Cavitat's success in
that endeavor. The biopsy business directed to him by Cavitat helped
his laboratory to become one of the largest of its kind in the nation
and Dr. Bouquot profited significantly from his association with
Cavitat in this regard."

>
> > reimbursements from the payor that Cavitat and the speakers knew or
> > should have known were not reimbursable services. Cavitat also provided
> > advice at these conferences on price-fixing as well as form
> > "treatment plans" designed to maximize the profitability of the
> > Cavitat for its owner at the expense of the patient and the payor.
>
> Just capitalism. Not even a RICO case except for any diagnositc fraud.
>
> >
> > 84. Counterclaim-Defendants provide their customers and attendees with
> > a laundry list of American Medical Association ("AMA") Current
> > Procedure Terminology ("CPT") codes and ADA codes. Nowhere in the
> > AMA or ADA CPT Codes is there a descriptive term or procedure for the
> > treatment of NICO. Likewise, the World Health Organization has not
> > recognized NICO as a pathologic condition in its publication,
> > "International Classification of Diseases, Ninth Revision"
> > ("ICD-9"), which serves as the generally-accepted standard for
> > describing recognized diseases and illnesses. These codes generically
>
> Nico is a meaningless term. you have a jaw legion and then other
> symptoms which may or may not be caused by the jaw legion.
> aetna should have a code to cover any surgical finding.

We don't know if they do, but you're talking about people possibly
having unecessary surgery based on a diagnostic technique that the FDA
says does not work for distinguishing between healthy and diseased bone
in any case.

Please read the rest of the allegations. I don't know how it will all
turn out in court, but some of the quotes from the main players are
stomach-turning.


> Then each other symptom (such as nerve pain) should be treated on it's
> own
> with treatments that are or are not approved by Aetna. If the patient
> is
> cured of other symptoms after surgery then good for the patient. Maybe
> I am missing something but it doesn't seem like Aetna has a case on the
> counterclaim, unless the biopsy findings were fraudlent
> and I think
> they
> do keep the slides so that seems unlikely.

I think you are missing something. In fact you've snipped something:

"These codes generically
apply to conditions and procedures that are not related to NICO.
Counterclaim-Defendants teach customers how to use the codes when
billing insurance companies for the diagnosis and treatment of NICO,
NICOrelated conditions, or oral surgery performed to treat non-dental
maladies."

Cavitat knew that Aetna did not cover the diagnoses and treatments they
were recommending. They taught people how to claim for them
fraudulently.

That's Aetna's case.

Cathy

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Peter Bowdit the BLATANT LIAR!
    ... Second proving that these legions can cause various ... > through oral surgery are inextricably tied to Cavitat, ... > referred this patient to coordinate treatment by a "heath food store ...
    (misc.health.alternative)
  • Re: Delayed Treatments for Prostate Cancer
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  • Re: Delayed Treatments for Prostate Cancer
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  • Re: Virtually Zero Alternative Cancer Research Occurirng
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  • Re: Peter Bowdit the BLATANT LIAR!
    ... This case is about Cavitat and ... > cavitat and use it on another patient who didn't need any surgery at ... Margolis is but one example of this type of practitioner. ...
    (misc.health.alternative)