Re: Some Doctors Shy Away From Diagnosing ADHD


"Mark Probert" <markprobert@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:36d%e.5464$dl2.1899@xxxxxxxxxxx
> LadyLollipop wrote:
>> "Mark Probert" <markprobert@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>> news:_G0%e.26598$Xa.17816@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>
>>>LadyLollipop wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Mark Probert" <markprobert@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>>>>news:3ZY_e.26523$Xa.3843@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Rich.@. wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Thu, 29 Sep 2005 07:23:57 GMT, "LadyLollipop"
>>>>>><LadyLollipop@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>( I have been called a liar, by Mark Probert for saying many kids in
>>>>>>>my day care were NOT diagnosed.See below)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I officially retract what I said about Jan Drew being smarter than she
>>>>>>lets on. Mark criticized Jan for asserting that some of her children
>>>>>>in day
>>>>>>care were *on* medications without a diagnosis.
>>>>>
>>>>>To be clear. I did tell Jan that I did not believe her when she said
>>>>>that the kids were being prescribed medication *without a diagnosis.*
>>>>>That was the specific allegation that she made.
>>>>>
>>>>>There is no reason to change my mind. Jan was told by me, Mark Lowery,
>>>>>MD (a board cerfified pediatrician) and others, that the patient's
>>>>>chart, and not the paperwork that Jan recieved in her day care service,
>>>>>must contain a diagnosis to justify the prescription of a medication.
>>>>>That would be ANY medication, not just those for treating ADHD.
>>>>>
>>>>>I looked at Indiana laws and regulations extensively, and Jan posted a
>>>>>link or two (I do not precisely recall how many), and, none of them
>>>>>clearly required that she be provided with a diagnosis for her to
>>>>>dispense medications upon a written order of a doctor (which is
>>>>>mandatory).
>>>
>>>>The FACT is:
>>>>
>>>>Mark called me a liar, years ago, on another ng, LONG before, Mark
>>>>Lowery ever posted anything.
>>>
>>>I was correct then, as I am now.
>>
>>
>> You were not correct then, you are not correct now. You called me a liar,
>> when if fact I was not lying.
>>
>>
>> You were never required to have a
>>
>>>diagnosis as the physician maintianed records are, thus, your claim that
>>>kids were being prescribed medications without a diagnosis was, is, and
>>>will always be a lie. Mark Lowery just fortified my argument with his
>>>hands on (the records) experience.
>>
>>
>> Mark Lowery knows nothing. You know nothing, of what I was required to
>> have, period.
>
> The rules were posted by you. There was no requirement.

I repeat:

Mark called me a liar, years ago, on another ng, LONG before, Mark Lowery
ever posted anything.



>
>>
>>
>>>>>This article in no way changes anything. In anything, it further
>>>>>reinforces my statements, and my long standing position, that children
>>>>>should be seen by their local pediatrician for a good physical, with
>>>>>blood work, etc. and then followed up with psychological and
>>>>>educational testing to get a good idea of what problems, if any, may
>>>>>impact the child in the classroom. That should be followed up with a
>>>>>parent and a teacher observational form of some sort (Connors, I
>>>>>believe, has a good one), and then a visit to a pediatric psychiatrist
>>>>>or neurologist for a formal diagnosis with treatment recommendations.
>>>>>
>>>>>The fact that this is not done in many cases I attribute to the lack of
>>>>>adequate medical services, the expenses involved, and, difficulty
>>>>>dealing with the school districts who are resistant to a finding that
>>>>>the child needs special education services.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>This article is about doctors reluctant to diagnose ADHD and not
>>>>>>doctors who put children on Ritalin and don't diagnose.
>>>>>
>>>>>Exactly. In fact, it is the opposite of what Jan has alleged and
>>>>>inferred over the years.
>>>>>
>>
>> It is no such thing.
>>
>> YOU and Richard H Jacobson are BOTH PROVEN L I A R S MANY TIMES OVER.
>
><snip excuses, lies and weaseling>
>
>>
>>>>>>The article also suggests that stimulants are UNDERprescribed due to
>>>>>>reluctance of doctors to make diagnosis or institute treatment unless
>>>>>>they are a specialist.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Poor, Richard H Jacobson. Poor, Mark Probert.
>>>>
>>>>http://www.newsinferno.com/storypages/9-28-2005~001.html
>>>
>>>Consumers Union is not a very good source of meical information.
>>
>>
>> Unless, they agreed with you, can it, Mark.
>>
>> Study by Consumers Union Concludes ADHD Medications are Over-Prescribed
>> to Children
>> Date Published: September 28, 2005
>> Source: Newsinferno.com News Staff
>>
>> A report by Consumers Union (CU), the publisher of Consumer Reports ,
>> concludes that while useful, stimulants used to treat millions of
>> children in the U.S. with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD)
>> are probably over-prescribed.
>>
>> Although the study selected several of the stimulant drugs as "Best
>> Buys," it also advised its readers that available evidence indicates most
>> of the drugs are equally effective.
>>
>> CU chose several forms of methylphenidate (the substance in the
>> brand-name drug Ritalin) as a best buy, including Metadate, Methylin, and
>> generic forms of the drug. It also favored generic forms of
>> dextroamphetamine, which cost $10 to $48 per month, depending on dosage.
>>
>> Consumer Reports based its selection on a review of scientific studies to
>> determine the effectiveness of drugs prescribed for ADHD and then applied
>> average pricing data. The publishers have previously done similar reviews
>> for antihistamines and nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory painkillers.
>>
>> The report, however, cautions that many children taking the medication
>> have only mild symptoms of the disorder or do not have it all. According
>> to Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) statistics, 4 million
>> American children between the ages of 3 and 17 have been diagnosed with
>> ADD (Attention Deficit Disorder).
>>
>> This amounts to roughly 6.5% of the population with boys being much more
>> susceptible than girls. In approximately 65% of the diagnosed cases, the
>> children are treated with stimulants. Government statistics also indicate
>> that stimulants are being prescribed to children who have not been
>> diagnosed with the problem.
>>
>> The report advises that many factors are involved in diagnosing ADHD
>> including a series of interviews, an assessment of school performance,
>> and emotional and learning difficulties.
>>
>> The article warns parents to be wary if a doctor makes a diagnosis and
>> prescribes a drug after a single relatively short visit. CU recommends
>> getting a second opinion if parents question the initial diagnosis.
>>
>> This advice is echoed by experts who believe more than one doctor or
>> therapist should be involved in the evaluation.
>>
>> The stimulants do have negative side-effects including sleeplessness,
>> loss of appetite, stomach pain, and headaches.
>>
>> The FDA is currently conducting a review of the reports of more serious
>> side-effects including psychotic episodes and suicidal thoughts in
>> children taking Concerta, a brand-name form of methylphenidate.
>>
>> The agency decided several months ago, however, not to require a warning
>> about these other potential risks on the drug's label but. It has put off
>> making a final decision until after the results of the review.
>>
>>
>>
>>>However, you posted the article we were initially discussing which
>>>clearly substantiates UNDERdiagnosis and UNDERprescribing.
>>>
>>>The problem is that there is no really good information on this subject
>>>regardless of where you look. Thus, I skip the OVER- and UNDER- claims,
>>>and go for CORRECT diagnosis, as I pointed out. If you get it right, over
>>>and under are meaningless non-issues.
>>>
>>>
>>>>>That is another point I have made. However, I prefer to point out that
>>>>>there is, like in any medical condition, mis-diagnosis. My regimen, as
>>>>>I described above, is designed to prevent that.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>The article says that 50% of children with ADHD are not diagnosed and
>>>>>>as a result NEVER get treatment.
>>>>>
>>>>>That makes it tragic. This is probably the result of the anti-science,
>>>>>anti-psychiatry, know-nothing, Scientoilogy inspired campaign that has
>>>>>lasted over a decade.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Glad to see Jan Drew wants these children to get the proper diagnosis
>>>>>>so that they can get effective treatment. Thanx to Jan Drew for
>>>>>>bringing this major problem with underdiagnosis and undertreatment.
>>>>>>Kudos to Jan!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>http://www.wtnh.com/global/story.asp?s=3900883&ClientType=Printable
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Some doctors shy away from diagnosing ADHD
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (WTNH, Sept. 26, 2005 5:20 PM) _ More and more
>>>>>>> pediatricians are reluctant in diagnosing children with attention
>>>>>>> deficit hyperactivity disorder.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ADHD is the most common psychiatric condition
>>>>>>> affecting children.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As many as 50 percent are never diagnosed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> a.. by Dr. Mike Rosen
>>>>>>> Charlie Torsiello knew he was struggling in
>>>>>>> school.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Charlie Torsiello, 14 year old, says,"I was
>>>>>>> constantly distracted with other things. Looking around the room,
>>>>>>> not paying attention."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Charlie has ADD, Attention Deficit Disorder.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> His mom Susan knew, from a previous child,
>>>>>>> exactly what was wrong but her pediatrician wouldn't treat either
>>>>>>> Charlie or his brother.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Susan Torsiello says,"When we suspected my older
>>>>>>> son had ADHD, he sent us to Schneider's directly to be evaluated
>>>>>>> because they have the lengthy interview process. He did not feel at
>>>>>>> that time that he felt comfortable."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Charlie's story is a common one. According to a
>>>>>>> new survey of pediatricians, many parents are told by their doctors
>>>>>>> they have to see a specialist to get help for their children's ADHD
>>>>>>> problems.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Andrew Adesman, M.D., ADHD expert, Schneider
>>>>>>> Children's Hospital, says,"It may be uncertainty about which is the
>>>>>>> right medicine, it may be concern about making the decision about
>>>>>>> whether medication is really indicated."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To change this, five years ago the American
>>>>>>> academy of pediatrics published guidelines to help primary care
>>>>>>> pediatricians properly diagnose and treat ADHD.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But still new research shows primary care
>>>>>>> pediatricians still don't want to deal with ADHD.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 82 percent of the pediatricians surveyed say
>>>>>>> they generally refer their patients on to specialists but 14 percent
>>>>>>> said they absolutely refuse to initiate medications and they refuse
>>>>>>> to follow the medications after they've been started.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Andrew Adesman says,"The American Academy of
>>>>>>> Pediatrics believes primary care pediatricians can and should assume
>>>>>>> responsibility for diagnosis and treatment."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Fortunately for Charlie, his mom got him to a
>>>>>>> specialist and got him on the medication he needs.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Torsiello says,"I started concentrating better,
>>>>>>> started getting higher grades and everything."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not all pediatricians have received the ADHD
>>>>>>> toolkit and only half of the doctors in the study say they don't use
>>>>>>> parent or teacher rating scales of the child's behavior.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This scales helps in diagnosis and treatment of
>>>>>>> ADHD.
>>
>>

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