Re: Opinions on Echinacea


David Wright wrote:
> In article <1123700043.135376.270390@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
> PeterB <pkm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> >cathyb wrote:
> >>
> >> As Petey must know, what I actually posted was:
> >>
> >> "People are intuitively very bad at risk assessment Jan--they waste
> >> money on lottery tickets, where the chances of winning are millions to
> >> one, instead of keeping money in a bank where they are guaranteed a
> >> (small) rate of return. And they take the relatively high risk of their
> >>
> >> kids dying or being impaired by diseases, because they are frightened
> >> of the much, much smaller risk of vaccine damage.
> >
> >What's your evidence that a "relatively high risk of kids dying or
> >being impaired by diseases" follows not being vaccinated? And how do
> >you know the risk of vaccine damage is "much, much smaller?" The world
> >is waiting for you to enlighten us.
>
> If we work from something like VAERS data to get our risk estimates
> for vaccines, and we use ordinary mortality/morbidity statistics for
> diseases, are you suggesting that the case for not vaccinating is
> stronger? Have you even bothered to check?
>
> Taking measles as an example, someone pointed out the other day that
> in the US, measles mortality per year was in the hundreds; claimed MMR
> mortality per year in VAERS is under a dozen. How's that for
> starters?

The problem is that VAERS doesn't adjust for the rate of attrition. We
don't know how many of these deaths represent children who were
vaccinated but contracted measles and died anyway. If both occured, it
isn't ethical to attribute mortality to measles alone when immunization
(sic) was concomitant. This would be like attributing lung cancer to
smoking in a patient who smokes but in whose bloodstream we directly
inject nicotine. The actual health benefit, or risk, of vaccination
over time is not known. Your premise begins with an assumption that
leads not to evidence, only conjecture.

>
> >> And part of the reason they do that is that there are anti-vaccination
> >> zealots out there who deliberately exaggerate the risks of vaccination,
> >
> >Why would they do that? Why would they not be happy to do what is best
> >for their children? You charge people who disagree with you as being
> >lunatics, but in making that claim you only prove that the real loony
> >tune is yourself.
>
> Why would they do that? How about because they're nuts? How about
> because people are bad at risk assessment, as Cathy pointed out and
> you have ignored?
>
> >> who deliberately and blatantly lie about vaccination, about the
> >> ingredients in vaccination, about the risks of vaccination.
> >
> >Cathyb is promoting her anti-consumer conspiracy theory again.
> >Consumers are a tricky bunch, you see. Their unconscious angst about
> >vaccines has magically morphed into a huge campaign designed to thwart
> >public immunizations all over the world. Instead of intelligently
> >addressing the scientific evidence for either side, cathy chides us
> >like little children.
>
> How is one to deal with the zealous anti-vac liars? Maybe Cathy's
> approach is not the best, but I see no reason to be gentle with such
> people. They're a menace to public health.

No, David, cathyb is a menace to thinking people everywhere. She
discusses this subject like a child.

PeterB

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Opinions on Echinacea
    ... >> David Wright wrote: ... >>> vaccination, and I'm talking within a few years. ... A pre-vaccination trendline shows measles declining many ... I mean Cathyb?! ...
    (misc.health.alternative)
  • Re: Opinions on Echinacea
    ... >> cathyb wrote: ... with links, data, and graphs, none of which prove that vaccination ... Notice the huge drop in incidence of measles in the late 1950s, ... he still hasn't come up with a shred of evidence for this. ...
    (misc.health.alternative)
  • Re: Opinions on Echinacea
    ... >> cathyb wrote: ... The 5 decade decline in measles morbidity PRIOR to ... >> exist when 90% of measles infection was already a thing of the past. ... following vaccination, which any high schooler could plainly determine ...
    (misc.health.alternative)
  • Re: Opinions on Echinacea
    ... >> cathyb wrote: ... >>> Petey is confusing measles morbidity and measles deaths again here. ... death were behind us when vaccination began. ...
    (misc.health.alternative)
  • Re: Opinions on Echinacea
    ... improved living standards and nutrition will help. ... I mean Cathyb?! ... That means my team is right and vaccination works!" ... >>> the HUGE spikes in measles outbreak well into the vaccination campaign. ...
    (misc.health.alternative)
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