Re: Building shoulders

"Jason Earl" <jearl@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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"Steve Freides" <steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> writes:

"Tom Anderson" <twic@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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On Sun, 27 Apr 2008, Steve Freides wrote:

"Tom Anderson" <twic@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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On Sat, 26 Apr 2008, Steve Freides wrote:

"Tom Anderson" <twic@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.64.0804262201350.7852@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
On Sat, 26 Apr 2008, Steve Freides wrote:

"Tom Anderson" <twic@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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On Fri, 25 Apr 2008, Stromata wrote:

So there are 3 basic movements:

Press
Lateral raises
Front raises

And upright rows.

And a lot of other things, too.

But i don't think there are as many shoulder exercises as you
think,
because a lot of them are essentially the same exercise.

How about pushups (pressups for UK brethren)?

Aha! Good point. And similar things such as the bench press, and in
particular the inclined bench press.

I think the discussion of bench press versus pushup is an
interesting one. I've been doing one-armed pushups lately, and it
sure feels like a shoulder exercise to me!

Interesting. Never tried them myself; not convinced i'd be able to!
I
would try it right now, but it's leg day.

Try one standing up, pushing yourself away from a wall one-handed.
If
you can do that, the progressive resistance comes from placing your
hand upon lower and lower objects. Each time I start back up on
these, I use a box. I've got one box, a "mini apple box" from a
photo
supply shop, that's 8" x 10" x 12". I used to have to start my
cycles
on the 12" side, now I'm good on the 8". I've just moved from
singles
to double at 8", and will gradually lower from there. In addition to
the 8" box, I also got a 4" ( x 10 x 12) and a 2", so I'm good to
vary
the height in 2" increments, which seems plenty small enough. An
adjustable aerobics step would also do this job, I think. Once I get
back into these more, I like a descending pyramid format, e.g., 3
reps
at 8", 2 reps at 6", 1 rep at 4". That's how I'll work back into
doing these from the floor again. (I was able to do them a couple of
years ago but it's been almost that long until I started again a few
weeks ago.)

Freides, sometimes it is pretty clear that you forget the rest of the
world doesn't weigh a buck-fifty.

Jason, Jason - oh, ye of little faith!

Just for fun I got up from my computer and did a one-arm pushup test
against the wall. On the way down I thought to myself, "self, for me
this is clearly a triceps exercise." Then my foot slipped and I
smashed
my head into the wall.

I'm sorry this happened to you, but please don't rule out the
possibility of a one-armed pushup. At the risk of stating the obvious,
while I may weigh less than you, I've got lots less muscle as well. My
particular build is far from ideal for pushups - I've got skinny legs.
The first time I tried a one-armed pushup, I also thought I'd never do
it, but you would be amazed at how much skill is involved in this and
not just general strength-to-bodyweight ratio. Try it a few times, of
course wearing proper footwear and on a proper surface. The concepts
people stress (or at least shoulder stress) for regular pushups about
keeping your body rigid throughout apply in spades here.

What I get from your words is that you tried something completely
foreign to you for the first time and failed - that's no reason to write
it off. If you are more comfortable, start on the floor with two hands
but do things so that one hand provides less assistance. I Googled:
steps to a one-armed pushup - and found this:

http://www.straighttothebar.com/2006/06/onearmed_pushups.html

Looks pretty useful to me.

If I want a break from bench presses I think I'll stick to pushups
with
my kids on my back.

As you wish, but you could do this if you work at it.

One could certainly include the bench press as well (and the
discussion of bench press versus pushup is an interesting one in
terms of what gets worked and how).

I'm in the "they're the same" camp myself.

I'm not - there's quite a difference between having your shoulder
blades pinched to a bench and having them move freely. I try to do
my
pushups with a full range of motion in this plane for the shoulder
blade - I try to imagine I'm doing a row as I lower, and when I'm
pushing up, I go all the way through as far as I can (the shoulder
blades separating).

I agree with this. Pushups aren't the same as bench presses. At
least
for me they aren't the same.

What's interesting, IMHO, is how nice this full front-to-back ROM is.
I do a lot of overhead pressing, and I really find these a tonic to
my
shoulders because it's basically 90 degrees different. The bench
press is decidedly _not_ that full ROM, one of the reasons I avoid it
like the proverbial plague.

Maybe I will try again when I weigh 20 pounds less.

And isn't a one-handed push=up similar to a close-grip bench press,
since you have your hand towards the centreline of your body? That
would make it more of a tricep exercise, though, not a shoulder
thing, which is what you've observed. Interesting.

No, a safe one-armed pushup requires a lot of activity from the lats
and pecs to stabilize the shoulder. As I mentioned above, I think of
it as a row, and I don't keep my hand near my center. If I took a
guess where I am at the bottom, it's probably with my thumb near the
nipple (and, of course, the rest of the hand further outboard than
that). A "real" one-armed pushup is essentially a two-armed pushup
without the other arm - of course, physics dictates it can't be like
that, but you make the movement harder and simultaneous safer, IMHO,
but using that as your model. Needless to say, I hope, is that it
also requires a lot of stabilization in the core.

Clearly you do a lot more stabilizing with a one armed pushup than a
bench press, but if you seriously compare it to a row, then you might
want to consider using more weight when you row :).

:) The idea that's important is actively pulling yourself to the
floor - it's one of those "tips" that gets all the necessary stabilizers
firiing for most people, me included. Not different in concept to
pulling yourself into the hole for a squat rather than just letting the
weight collapse you.

And, equally needless to say, there are a _ton_ of suggestions for
making the exercise both easier and harder to adapt it to one's
current strength in Pavel's "Naked Warrior"
http://www.kbnj.com/nw.htm
which focuses on only two exercises, the one-armed pushup and the
one-legged squat.

I like pistols. One-armed pushups not so much...

You just haven't gotten to _know_ one-armed pushups.

I'm not willing to say that one-armed pushups shouldn't be suggested,
but most people just aren't gymnasts. I bet that the Iron Cross is
good
for your shoulders too, but I wouldn't suggest that most people
include
it in their workouts.

You're off base here. An Iron Cross is a very difficult movement - a
one-armed pushup, while certainly harder than the two-handed variety, is
not. You just haven't put in the time - that article really is pretty
good and I hope you read it and give this another try.

Jason

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com


.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Building shoulders
    ... But i don't think there are as many shoulder exercises as you think, ... because a lot of them are essentially the same exercise. ... particular the inclined bench press. ... One-armed pushups not so much... ...
    (misc.fitness.weights)
  • Re: Building shoulders
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    ... I think my slight head injury had more to do with this comment ... if compared your overhead press numbers to your weight I ... As a shoulder exercise for random USENET ... people the one-armed pushup isn't likely to be a good choice. ...
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