Re: Building shoulders

"Steve Freides" <steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> writes:

"Tom Anderson" <twic@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.64.0804271632050.16334@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
On Sun, 27 Apr 2008, Steve Freides wrote:

"Tom Anderson" <twic@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.64.0804271358530.16334@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
On Sat, 26 Apr 2008, Steve Freides wrote:

"Tom Anderson" <twic@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.64.0804262201350.7852@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
On Sat, 26 Apr 2008, Steve Freides wrote:

"Tom Anderson" <twic@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.64.0804251331070.15102@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
On Fri, 25 Apr 2008, Stromata wrote:

So there are 3 basic movements:

Press
Lateral raises
Front raises

And upright rows.

And a lot of other things, too.

But i don't think there are as many shoulder exercises as you think,
because a lot of them are essentially the same exercise.

How about pushups (pressups for UK brethren)?

Aha! Good point. And similar things such as the bench press, and in
particular the inclined bench press.

I think the discussion of bench press versus pushup is an
interesting one. I've been doing one-armed pushups lately, and it
sure feels like a shoulder exercise to me!

Interesting. Never tried them myself; not convinced i'd be able to! I
would try it right now, but it's leg day.

Try one standing up, pushing yourself away from a wall one-handed. If
you can do that, the progressive resistance comes from placing your
hand upon lower and lower objects. Each time I start back up on
these, I use a box. I've got one box, a "mini apple box" from a photo
supply shop, that's 8" x 10" x 12". I used to have to start my cycles
on the 12" side, now I'm good on the 8". I've just moved from singles
to double at 8", and will gradually lower from there. In addition to
the 8" box, I also got a 4" ( x 10 x 12) and a 2", so I'm good to vary
the height in 2" increments, which seems plenty small enough. An
adjustable aerobics step would also do this job, I think. Once I get
back into these more, I like a descending pyramid format, e.g., 3 reps
at 8", 2 reps at 6", 1 rep at 4". That's how I'll work back into
doing these from the floor again. (I was able to do them a couple of
years ago but it's been almost that long until I started again a few
weeks ago.)

Freides, sometimes it is pretty clear that you forget the rest of the
world doesn't weigh a buck-fifty.

Just for fun I got up from my computer and did a one-arm pushup test
against the wall. On the way down I thought to myself, "self, for me
this is clearly a triceps exercise." Then my foot slipped and I smashed
my head into the wall.

If I want a break from bench presses I think I'll stick to pushups with
my kids on my back.

One could certainly include the bench press as well (and the
discussion of bench press versus pushup is an interesting one in
terms of what gets worked and how).

I'm in the "they're the same" camp myself.

I'm not - there's quite a difference between having your shoulder
blades pinched to a bench and having them move freely. I try to do my
pushups with a full range of motion in this plane for the shoulder
blade - I try to imagine I'm doing a row as I lower, and when I'm
pushing up, I go all the way through as far as I can (the shoulder
blades separating).

I agree with this. Pushups aren't the same as bench presses. At least
for me they aren't the same.

What's interesting, IMHO, is how nice this full front-to-back ROM is.
I do a lot of overhead pressing, and I really find these a tonic to my
shoulders because it's basically 90 degrees different. The bench
press is decidedly _not_ that full ROM, one of the reasons I avoid it
like the proverbial plague.

Maybe I will try again when I weigh 20 pounds less.

And isn't a one-handed push=up similar to a close-grip bench press,
since you have your hand towards the centreline of your body? That
would make it more of a tricep exercise, though, not a shoulder
thing, which is what you've observed. Interesting.

No, a safe one-armed pushup requires a lot of activity from the lats
and pecs to stabilize the shoulder. As I mentioned above, I think of
it as a row, and I don't keep my hand near my center. If I took a
guess where I am at the bottom, it's probably with my thumb near the
nipple (and, of course, the rest of the hand further outboard than
that). A "real" one-armed pushup is essentially a two-armed pushup
without the other arm - of course, physics dictates it can't be like
that, but you make the movement harder and simultaneous safer, IMHO,
but using that as your model. Needless to say, I hope, is that it
also requires a lot of stabilization in the core.

Clearly you do a lot more stabilizing with a one armed pushup than a
bench press, but if you seriously compare it to a row, then you might
want to consider using more weight when you row :).

And, equally needless to say, there are a _ton_ of suggestions for
making the exercise both easier and harder to adapt it to one's
current strength in Pavel's "Naked Warrior" http://www.kbnj.com/nw.htm
which focuses on only two exercises, the one-armed pushup and the
one-legged squat.

I like pistols. One-armed pushups not so much...

I'm not willing to say that one-armed pushups shouldn't be suggested,
but most people just aren't gymnasts. I bet that the Iron Cross is good
for your shoulders too, but I wouldn't suggest that most people include
it in their workouts.

Jason
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Building shoulders
    ... But i don't think there are as many shoulder exercises as you ... because a lot of them are essentially the same exercise. ... particular the inclined bench press. ... The first time I tried a one-armed pushup, I also thought I'd never do ...
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