Re: Warrior diet (is it possible?)
- From: "Steve Freides" <steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 12:31:41 -0400
"Davide" <davideb_music@xxxxxxxx> wrote in message
DZ ha scritto:
Davide <davideb_music@xxxxxxxx> wrote:[> >> of protein.
DZ ha scritto:
Davide <davideb_music@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
I'd like to know from someone who follows the Warrior diet while
also being involved in physical exercises of any kind, how on
can you follow this diet ?!
If you are wondering about the optimal diet for competing
who try to gain edge whatever legal means, then your concerns may
valid. If you have in mind overall fitness, and don't care if you
won't achieve all 100% of your athletic potential, then these
are exaggerated, in terms of needed calories and especially the
I suppose by the Warrior diet you mean eating only at night -
what I do. The name "Warrior" is far too corny and pretentious
so I wouldn't adopt it.
Okay, I agree that the "esoteric" side should be separated from the
health and diet so let's just call it eating at night instead of
day. But I wonder are you trying to lose, mantain or gain weight?
My weight is stable, but higher than what it would be if I weren't
I can understand how this diet works for weight loss since you
undereat at night but what about maintenance? Someone mentioned to
me that the author of the diet looks gaunt and wasted like someone
who is starving
You can see that I didn't end up looking gaunt and wasted from the
clip in my previous post.
So, why do you think the author got wasted and gaunt
Does it mean that the diet may work for smaller people that requires
less calories or that it can't be continued indefinitely?
What about then cycling?
Like 1 week of warrior diet out of 4 weeks, the other three just
more meals a day?
Or two weeks out of 4
Would that provide the beneficials of alternate fasting seen on
longevity studies while also taking care of the problem of not getting
enough calorie all in all?
I may believe that your hunger will allow you to eat that much but
your stomach won't
By the time stomach tells me to stop, I'm past being hungry. That's
all there is to it.
Exactly, and I'm sure that when you're past hungry you still haven't
consumed enough calories or the calories that you need and would have
consumed if you had instead consumed more meals
There is one way to find if it works for you - try
and see if you lose too much weight or become too hungry during the
day. There are adaptations that take place during intermittent
including more efficient utilization of protein.
One thing I forgot to say - most optimal is to eat right after the
The problem is that I train on the morning, I don't think training at
pm is that good or would allow you to train at your max potential
You can also try to have something easily digestible, perhaps a
protein shake right before the training if you worry about not being
able to squeeze in those extra calories (just how much extra calories
per training session do you intend to spend?). Then eat the rest of
the food when you come back home from the gym.
So, this is how my Warrior days were:
Didn't eat nothing except vegetable juices and miso soup and vegetable
broth till 8 pm without hunger.
At 8 pm I began my big meal with a small salad, then three eggs and
half a big avocado
This was a typical meal and nowhere as big as it would have
theoretically supposed to be
90 minutes later I would eat 150 grams of whole pasta with half pack
That's it: sunk !
I couldn't eat anything more:
194 calories, 16 grams protein
150 calories, 3 grams of protein
103 calories, 12 grams of protein
400 calories, 20 grams of protein
200 calories - oils
This is indeed 1000 calories and 51 grams of proteins and it's
big time for everyone let alone someone who exercises. Even for women
on diet that shouldn't IMO go below 20% of their BMR when dieting
consume at least 1200 calories when they're trying to lose a lot of
This suits the menus I've seen: even people who say they eat a lot on
the warrior diet rarely exceed 1000 calories in their two night meals
unless they introduce caloric dense junk food in the diet and it's no
wonder they're losing weight.
If you cook all those 1000 calories and put them on the table you will
see is an awful lot of food and you may wonder how all that food will
ever suits the fist size of your small stomach. So those 1000 calories
where even more than my stomach could normally handle, just figure
is they were more than that
What do you eat usually?
Can you tell me exactly each food and how much you eat and within how
many meals and what time of the day?
As far as the increased protein needs, I'll post it again:
"In highly trained powerlifters and bodybuilders, in whom muscle mass
is high but stable, it is unlikely that their dietary protein
requirements are elevated much more than those of a sedentary
and "All things considered, it is abundantly clear that any protein
requirement set for strength-training athletes is of little
(http://tinyurl.com/3jurp ; PMID: 15212752)
"It appears that low- and moderate-intensity endurance exercise does
not affect dietary protein requirements... For the well- trained
endurance athlete training 4 to 5 d/wk for longer than 60 min, there
appears to be a very modest increase in dietary protein requirements"
(http://tinyurl.com/3qafz ; PMID: 15212749)
"Although contrary to traditional belief, recent scientific
collected on physically active individuals tends to indicate that
regular exercise increases daily protein requirements; however, the
precise details remain to be worked out. Based on laboratory measures,
daily protein requirements are increased by perhaps as much as 100%
recommendations for sedentary individuals (1.6-1.8 vs. 0.8 g/kg). Yet
even these intakes are much less than those reported by most athletes.
This may mean that actual requirements are below what is needed to
optimize athletic performance, and so the debate continues. Numerous
interacting factors including energy intake, carbohydrate
exercise intensity, duration and type, dietary protein quality,
training history, gender, age, timing of nutrient intake and the like
make this topic extremely complex"
"This paper reviews the factors (exercise intensity, carbohydrate
availability, exercise type, energy balance, gender, exercise
age, and timing of nutrient intake or subsequent exercise sessions)
thought to influence protein need. Although there remains some debate,
recent evidence suggests that dietary protein need increases with
rigorous physical exercise. Those involved in strength training might
need to consume as much as 1.6 to 1.7 g protein x kg(-1) x day(-1)
(approximately twice the current RDA) while those undergoing endurance
training might need about 1.2 to 1.6 g x kg(-1) x day(-1)
(approximately 1.5 times the current RDA). Future longitudinal studies
are needed to confirm these recommendations and asses whether these
protein intakes can enhance exercise performance. Despite the
frequently expressed concern about adverse effects of high protein
intake, there is no evidence that protein intakes in the range
suggested will have adverse effects in healthy individuals."
"In summary, protein requirements for athletes performing strength
training are greater than for sedentary individuals and are above
current Canadian and US recommended daily protein intake requirements
for young healthy males."
I'm not saying there is a need for consuming huge amount of protein
They're right with that: there's no need for more protein than the RDA
suggests for building the extra muscle mass, muscle is mostly water
the protein required to build the maximum amount of muscle that can be
put on in a week is already covered by the RDA
But when you look at the overall nitrogen balance though you see that
there are conditions which raise the amount of protein needed to
a nitrogen balance
The reason is that other things affect the nitrogen balance and the
need for more protein, for example exercises increases protein
and the body keep using proteins as a substrate during exercise no
fatter how much fat you have to burn instead or how much glycogen and
glucose you could provide to the body.
For example when dieting the amount of protein needed to maintain
nitrogen balance goes up and if you're a beginner it goes up a lot
If face both the papers you cited and the ones I cited agree that
there's slightly increased need for protein. If you consider that
are bodybuilders consuming 300 grams of protein in a sitting you can
see we both agree on this.
A good amount to be sure to remain in nitrogen balance is IMO 1g/pound
or else 0.80/pound.
The eating approach I follow, which is the same as DZ, works well for
me. I'm very happy with my body composition. I have grown very slowly
leaner and more muscular as the years have worn on. I maintain my
bodyweight by simply getting on the scale every morning - if I'm gaining
weight, I eat less, and if I'm too light, I eat more.
I do cycle my WD-style eating - I'm what you'd call a social eater, and
on the weekends, I typically have a nice, big, carbohydrate-filled
brunch one or both days with my wife and kids, and just generally eat
whatever I want. During the week I eat less during the day, fewer carbs
overall, and fewer total calories per day. Typically my weight is
highest on Monday mornings and lowest on Friday or Saturday but the
difference isn't much, maybe 3 lbs. or so.
One thing I don't think gets mentioned enough in connection with this
style of eating - the body's dependence on regular feedings can, like
just about anything else about our bodies, be trained. Most people who
try WD style eating and fail do so for the same reasons a new weight
lifter might fail - too much change too soon. I took my good old time
about getting used to eating this way and looking back now, I'm glad I
I'm 51 years old, 153 lbs. this morning, 5' 8" tall, and deadlifted 364
lbs. in competition in the 148 lb. weight class and raw division of the
AAU just last year, which is just shy of 2.5 times bodyweight, an
accomplishment I'm very proud of, even if John Hanson thinks it's no big
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