Re: What's up with gym clothing styles?

OmManiPadmeOmelet <Omelet@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> writes:

> In article <87sluojadv.fsf@xxxxxxxxxxxx>,
> Jason Earl <jearl@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> OmManiPadmeOmelet <Omelet@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> writes:
>>
>> > In article <2nmtl1d0kotf412lfg76dpio1o2oqioi2r@xxxxxxx>,
>> > TheBillRodgers <TheBillRodgers@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 20:17:35 -0500, OmManiPadmeOmelet
>> >> <Omelet@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >Not up on the current research. Last I read, Nike was the worst
>> >> >for this, especially with socker balls.
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Yes they are, but even the ones who say "made in america" have the
>> >> pieces sewn in 3rd world nations, so they sidestep the bad
>> >> publicity.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >Made me sick the first time I read about it. :-(
>> >> >
>> >> >Poor damned kids!
>> >>
>> >> Om, did you know they make exceptional money for their countrys
>> >> economy? They are happy to have a job, and pennies is actually good
>> >> money in their (most of them) countrys?
>> >
>> > Only for the slave owners. The kids that do the actual work are
>> > still badly abused! -- Om.
>>
>> I went to high school in Peru, and spent a few years after high
>> school living in Chile (which is much better off than Peru). One
>> of the things that I learned during my time in South America is
>> that you should *never* believe the propaganda that gets produced
>> about "sweat shops" in foreign countries. I watched one of these
>> "documentaries" getting made, and it was mostly faked. The one I
>> saw made was based on a very dis-satisfied ex-employee who was paid
>> for his "testimony." There is a lot of money involved in these
>> markets, and a documentary that makes Nike look bad (and that can't
>> be independently verified) is worth its weight in gold.
>>
>> Now, I am not saying that the sweat shop jobs are Shangri-la,
>> because they aren't. However, I guarantee you that the waiting
>> lines for placement in these jobs are generally ridiculously long.
>> Making pennies a day stitching soccer balls might not seem like
>> much of a career path, but the alternatives are much worse.
>
> I know. The articles stated such which is why boycotting is not only
> pointless, but counter-productive.

Some people don't have a problem with sending financial aid to these
countries, but they balk at the idea of purchasing goods and services
from the companies that do business in these countries. I've never
understood that. These people don't want a handout. They want a job.
Unfortunately they aren't qualified for a very good job, and their
political system is so corrupt that unskilled labor is almost
worthless.

>> Ironically, trying to pay these people more often backfires. The
>> parent company *tries* to pay a larger wage and next thing you know
>> some scumbag is skimming off the top of all of the employees wages.
>> Think of all of the problems with corruption that we have had in
>> the states with organized labor and dishonest management and then
>> multiply it by 100 fold, and you have somewhat of an idea as to how
>> these countries work. Sure, Nike could simply pull out of the
>> country altogether, but then what do these people do for a living?
>
> Nothing. They would just starve faster. I'm not _that_ ignorant.

I know you aren't ignorant Om. On usenet I tend to write to the
peanut gallery. Please don't take it personally if it seems like I am
trying too hard to explain.

>> Nike's problem (along with the rest of the apparel industry) is that
>> it is in a labor intensive business that requires little in the way of
>> expensive equipment. You wouldn't build a multi-billion dollar
>> facility in a country where your factory could be expropriated the
>> next day or where civil unrest and corruption might lead to serious
>> instability. That's why no one is building automobile plants or
>> semiconductor fabs in Peru or Pakistan. However, sweatshops are
>> relatively inexpensive to build, and the skills needed can be easily
>> taught, and even in a thoroughly modern apparel factory a great deal
>> of the work is still done by hand. So these sorts of businesses, do
>> to nothing but simple economics, tend to end up in places where the
>> government is so unstable that the only thing that the country has to
>> offer foreign business is lots and lots of cheap labor.
>
> So what would you suggest? IMHO education would be the key?

For the people that live in these locations the best thing that could
possibly happen is to find some honest people and put them in charge.
It almost doesn't matter what their politics are either if they'll get
a handle on corruption.

Take Chile for example. When Pinochet seized power it was as poor or
poorer than any of its neighbors. Pinochet definitely had his
problems, but he was absolutely ruthless about stamping out
corruption. Corrupt officials could easily find themselves
"disappeared."

This ruthlessness along with Pinochet's active courting of external
investors turned Chile into the most successful economy in South
America (by far). Once Chileans were working most of the problems
that are typical of South American governments disappeared completely.
When I lived in Peru at Christmas time police would routinely pull
people over at gunpoint and demand money. In Chile the police didn't
even carry guns.

However, this sort of thing can't happen without external capital (at
least at first), which is why boycotting is not a good idea. In fact,
as Chile began to be competitive in the fruit and produce markets
American interests tried their best to sabotage this new competitor.
Perhaps you remember the "Alar" scare over Chilean produce in 1989.
Two punctured grapes (that were almost certainly a plant) almost
destroyed Chile's agricultural sector.

>> The good news is that if the country is able to get a grip on
>> corruption then it can move up the ladder and attract more serious
>> foreign investment. Chile has been successful in this regard. There
>> is a huge difference between the standard of living in Chile and the
>> standard of living in Peru and it is almost entirely due to the fact
>> that Chile is a much safer place to invest your money.
>
> They really need to learn to practice birth control.

That's not likely to happen either. At least not in the really poor
countries. In the truly poor areas of the world children are
basically the one investment for the future that people can make. A
large family is basically a living breathing 401K plan. People
without large families have no one to care for them when they get old.

What needs to happen is that we need to find effective ways to invest
in these areas. Even in areas with rampant corruption life is still
better as the overall economic situation improves. On the bright side
it is possible for societies to clean up corruption. The U.S. went
through several periods where corruption was more rampant than what we
see today. It may just be a matter of time.

Jason
.

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