Re: Why use the TeX suite?

Joel J. Adamson wrote:
Jose Geraldo <jggouvea@xxxxxxxxx> writes:

I recently showed a table that I prepared in LaTeX to my supervisor,
and he said "I'm torn between looking at the data and noticing how
nice the table is formatted." When I told him that it took me only
seconds to make that table (using a converter that I wrote), he was
even more impressed. Most of our tables around here are made in Word,
and you have to click this, click that and it always ends up comping
out different every time I open it.

However, suppose that you need to insert an extra column in a large table. Here's one instance where pointing and clicking makes the task much faster. In the markup, you may have to count out through very similar-looking entries for each row, hoping that you've inserted your cell in the right place.

I find that it's easiest to prototype my tables in a spread*** for this reason, and then use cell formulas to generate the LaTeX code.


LaTeX:
o automatic numbering of all compnent parts of a document;
Most people I know type the numbers and are happy with it.

Yeah, but when the journal sends back the paper and says "Please use
our standard numbering system: 1, 1.1, 1.1.2, etc" our librarian has
to go back and retype them one-by-one: plenty of opportunity to screw
up and make everybody look bad. (this journal incidentally accepts
LaTeX manuscripts).

This is a major difficulty for Word users, who often refuse to use the structured automatic numbering systems and formatting styles. A huge amount of unnecessary editing seems to go into manually changing formatting and numbering.


I sent my boss a manuscript in
LaTeX, pointed out to him that it's just text and he should edit it
freely, since I have a version control system to mark changes. This
was my way of saying "I'll handle the hard stuff." He emailed back:
"Please send me a Microsoft Word version: I can't handle latex." I
sent him a converted version and he wrote back "the references are not
in Endnote format."

In the non-technical sense of the word, it's NOT just 'text'. If it were, it would be far more legible to the non-tech reader. On the contrary, LaTeX is text riddled with markup. If you are not accustomed to coping with footnotes, endnotes and citations mingled in with the body text, it's not easy to read at all. Even the chapter and section headings can appear indistinguishable from the rest.

I wonder, though, if LaTeX could fare better by being pretty-printed. To me, LyX is very much a pretty-printing editor. It'd be good if more LaTeX-oriented editors allowed something similar, beyond only color-coding.

For example, how about indenting footnotes, enlarging and emboldening section headings, and so on?

Code-folding (for long footnotes in particular) is also not widely offered by the 'friendly' editors that low-tech users are most likely to try.


Your comment about "share of the word processing market" is similarly
misinformed: TeX/LaTeX are not word processors. They use a totally
different paradigm. One that, in my mind, is superior.

It's indeed superior for some things, but not for all. One of the reasons why mathematically-oriented people like it is because it accommodates their work well. If you try something like a parallel translation with multiple footnote sequences, and texts with a lot of superscripts, subscripts and other localized formatting, it gets very messy to edit.


I don't see people finding Word easy to use: I see them complaining,
having huge problems with EndNote and all this other proprietary stuff
they use. It's not easy to use.

I agree with you here, but I do see them easily convincing themselves that they can handle Word, and that they MUST handle Word. There are also huge institutional support networks to help Word and EndNote users, but for LaTeX and friends you're often on your own.

I asked my university library why they provide so many classes on trivial matters like EndNote and Word fundamentals that anyone admitted to a university should be able to work out for themselves, yet nothing at all for LaTeX users in spite of there being very many of us who have trouble with various things from time to time. My letter was forwarded to the engineering library, where the coordinator of these classes is based, and he explained that he'd heard of LaTeX, but didn't know how or where people learn it, nor what they do with it.

It's true that my university is formally in league with Microsoft (so much so that they announced a decade ago that no one was allowed non-Windows machines except for Mac-only applications in the Art and Design School), but I doubt that this kind of response would be at all uncommon.


I tried learning how to use Word better for fifteen
years and I never got any better at it. Word processing doesn't make
sense to me.

That may be because you were trying to use a word processor for a task that isn't inherently word processing. Word processing is not needed all that often in the sciences, is it? It'd be a bit like using Word or HTML for fine typesetting; they just aren't designed for that. The market for fine typesetting isn't lucrative enough for big players like Microsoft to care about.

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