Re: Scientific Workplace vs Latex2e

Turgut Durduran wrote:
Alan Ristow (ristow@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx) wrote:

: Sure, every editor has a learning curve of some sort, but most Win/Mac : applications have a certain set of common commands that have become a de : facto standard -- in almost any application, editor or otherwise, I know : I can open a file by typing C-o, close it by typing C-w, do a search by : typing C-f, etc. Because of this, I can usually download a new Win/Mac : editor and be working with it fairly comfortably within 30 minutes. The : last time I installed Emacs, on the other hand, it took me half a day : just to look up the basic key bindings and ensure everything was : installed and working correctly.

during that half-day you spent,did you by any chance try typing something like "modify emacs to be windows like" in google? You would have found this:
http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/windows/faq3.html#windows-like

Nope. Because I don't want Emacs to be Windows-like, I just want to be able to relate Emacs concepts to those prevalent in Win/Mac editors in order to make learning Emacs faster and easier. The only exception to that would have been the way configuration options are presented on-screen, but David Kastrup already told me how to achieve what I want with standard Emacs commands.

which according to people seems to work. Essentially changing bunch of key-bindings to match those of windows.

but you *did* say " I've never checked whether a guide to Emacs for Win/Mac users exists .."

You're right, I did say that, but I misspoke. Before I sent that message I realized I should at least look for such a guide first, so I did, but I forgot to change the sentence. At any rate, I never found such a guide.

This being said, some trivia is worthwhile to mention here. Emacs came *before* windows and there are many many users over this time who got used to its key-bindings which are shared by various shells in unices,

Certainly, but that's completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand. David expressed an interest in understanding what makes folks accustomed to Win/Mac editors reluctant to use Emacs, and I was simply trying to provide him with my experience. That Emacs came first doesn't make it any easier to switch and is completely irrelevant to me as a user.

If I gave the impression that I want Emacs to behave like a Win/Mac editor, sorry, I didn't mean to. I'm only explaining, at David's request, the things that I have found difficult or confusing in making the switch and describing resources that would make switching easier.

: All that said, I seriously doubt Emacs will ever have the mass appeal of : a Win/Mac editor. Too much that is fundamental to Emacs would have to : change in order for that to happen. I suppose I could see a third branch : of Emacs that discards the current key bindings and other conventions in : favor of those used in Win/Mac applications, but I suspect there's a : limit to how far that could go before Emacs would lose much of what : makes it what it is.

First of all, I hate your usage of "a Win/Mac editor". What does that mean?

It means that the vast majority[*] of editors that run under Windows and MacOS are very similar in appearance and tend to have the same key bindings for basic commands like those used to open and close files, copy and paste, etc. Their options and preferences tend to be collected and presented to the user in a similar manner, and basic commands like search-and-replace tend to be executed in a similar manner. Thus, anybody accustomed to using applications under Windows and MacOS does not need to re-learn basic commands for each new program.

[*] Strictly speaking I suppose I can't make that claim, since I haven't actually tried *every* editor, but in the many dozens that I *have* tried (on both Win and Mac) I can count on one hand the number that don't behave as I've described.

The question is whether it is necessary. Is emacs something that is trying to compete with those users, or is it somewhat of a "revolutionary" approach?

That's not the question that was asked. The question had more to do with why so many people who try Emacs go back to their old editors. Now, you personally might not care why, and that's fine, but David clearly does. I'm only trying to oblige him.

I personally use emacs for everything (except for composing e-mails) and only tiny bit of its functionality. I find it a lot more powerful and efficient than any "mainstream" windows editor I can think of.

I don't disagree. That, and its cross-platform availability, are what make it appealing to me. But its power and efficiency are not really relevant to the query I was responding to.

Alan
.

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