Re: The one thing I like better about Windows...

On Fri, 3 Apr 2009 12:52:52 +1300, Jamie Kahn Genet wrote:

salgud <spamboy6547@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Fri, 3 Apr 2009 08:37:44 +1300, Jamie Kahn Genet wrote:

salgud <spamboy6547@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 18:15:24 -0500, Luke wrote:

...is that the Home and End keys position the cursor to the beginning
and end of every input text field. Anyway to get Mac to emulate this
behavior?

The only thing? How about
1. Resizing/reshaping a window from any side/corner?

Not sure why this is needed. Seems more an issue of adjusting to a
different OS rather than the lack of a truly useful feature.
My guess is you don't do the kind of work where you want a window, say a
spread*** or a browser, on the right side of the screen, but only a
specific portion showing. You have to drag it away from the right side of
the screen, then resize it to see if it fits the way you want, then repeat
until it's just the way you want. In Windoze, just drag on the lower left
corner til it's sized correctly.

*shrugs* I suppose I'm used to quickly resizing a window without that
ability. I suppose it could shave a few seconds off such tasks :-) But
really it's far from important to me.

Being used to it, I'd have to guess, but I think it's one of those things
that once you get used to it, then lose it, you very much notice.
"Gotta resize this window...
Oops, want to make it bigger to the left.
Ok, drag it over to the left, then drag it bigger from the lower right
corner.
There it is!

2. Deleting any selected item anywhere with the delete key?

Command-delete (in The Finder) is no good for you?
Didn't know that shortcut (don't really like memorizing thousands of
shortcuts anyway. Should have put it on my list), but even so, in some
apps, Delete doesn't.

I should add command-delete in the Finder just puts an item in the
trash, and if you then hit command-shift-delete you'll empty the trash.
However there are menu commands for all of this with the KB shortcuts
next to them, so no need to remember everything.

Plus you can right click on most things and get a contextual menu with
common commands like 'Move to Trash', etc.

3. Escaping from virually anything with the escape key?

Command-. (period) is the shortcut for cancel/undo. Though come to think
of it I've not used it for years... (as cancel, anyway).

Well, I'll just add that to my list of shortcuts what I can memorize this
weekend instead of visiting my friends or going out walking by the lake...

Once again see the menus - Edit in this case - for more. No need to
memorise anything except 'look in the appropriate menu'. That's not
hard, is it?

Yes, I'm aware there are menus and how to use them. I also know that the
menus at the top are the slowest way I know of to do things in a GUI.
That's the main reason the GUI was invented - to give much quicker access
to frequently used commands, like Quit and Hide. And yes, keyboard
shortcuts, once you know them, are even quicker. Problem is, I don't really
want to memorize dozens, if not hundreds, of keyboard shortcuts. In a
well-designed OS, you shouldn't have to choose between memorizing keyboard
shortcuts and using menus for commonly used commands. That's pretty basic.

What are you trying to back out of?
Most everything, at one time or another.

What, like starting to drag something, and then changing your mind? Just
release whatever you're dragging onto the menubar which is a dead zone
for drag and drop, or hit Escape.

But other than dragging I can't think of anything else I need to back
out of that doesn't have a cancel or disconnect button/menu command or
the like. Seriously - give an example of something you're trying to back
out of. I'm a little confused here - genuinely so.

4. Controls consistently at the top of the window?

Which controls?
ALL of em! Buttons, menus, etc. In iCal, for example, the + button to add a
new calendar at the bottom of that area of the screen. In iTunes, the
button to incorporate a new CD into iTunes at the lower right of the
screen. A lot of apps put buttons anywhere they want, and we get to hunt
for them.

The menubar is always in the same place, though, and KB shortcuts stay
pretty darn consistant between apps. You can't really blame Apple for
what app designers do with the rest of their apps UI, can you? I can
think of plenty of Windows apps that don't group every button at the top
of their windows.

No offence - but it sounds to me like you're often forgetting about the
menubar when it comes to doing things. Apps tend to put only the most
commonly used commands into the UI as buttons, otherwise you'd suffer
enormous clutter.

I didn't say that there I couldn't do any of the things I mentioned in my
post. I know the menus are there and use them frequently. And I'm gradually
learning more and more keyboard shortcuts as I go. What I'm saying is, I
don't want to. I don't think this is good OS design.

I only jumped in because someone posted that the only thing they miss is
the "Home" and "End" keys, which I miss very much too. Along with a lot of
other things. Can I adapt? I am! But I can bitch about it if I want.

5. The 3 little icons (colored circles on the Mac) that always minimize,
close or maximize the window?

Problem with them?
They do entirely different things in different apps. The little yellow
circle is usually minimize to the Dock, but in iTunes it minimizes to a
small iTues player. In other apps, the red + does different things.

Red always closes the window IME. Or sometimes the whole app if that was
the only open window and it's been programmed that way (and if it makes
sense - as with a calulator app where you'd not ever have multiple
windows). But I'd say that's pretty consistent.

And yellow in iTunes minimises to the Dock. _Green_ minimises and
maximises the window.

6. A generally consistent interface?

I find the vast majority of Mac apps' UI elements look and behave the
same. What's giving you grief?

In short - more info please :-)
See above

I dunno - I think you're just very used to the way to do stuff in
Windows and having an understandably tough time adapting to life on a
Mac.
Going between OSX, Linux and Windows machines on a regular basis I guess
I've got used to adapting - though I still want to go Windows Key-C
(because the Windows Key is where the command key is on Macs) to copy in
Windows. Gods I loath that stupid useless key. But I digress...

If I were you I'd get a book like David Pogue's Missing Manual for
Switchers (I forget the exact title - but it's not hard to find) and
spend a while looking up common tasks and seeing what differences there
are.

Already bought it, and read it virtually cover to cover before I bought the
Mac. Very helpful. Without it, I'd have been much more miserable trying to
adapt. But having the book doesn't undo the fact that I can't drag a window
from any side/corner.

Or just post queries here when you're stumped, but do try googling first
as making no effort to find out for yourself will not win friends and
influence people ;-)

Regards,
Jamie Kahn Genet

I have figured out how to do all these things on a Mac. I wasn't asking,
"How do I change a window size?" I am saying I don't like having to change
it from just the one corner and that it's obviously still that way on a Mac
because M$ figured that one out first and Mac won't copy it because, God
forbid, it's "Windowish"!!!

I wasn't saying I don't know how to rip a CD into iTunes, only that the
button at the bottom of the screen is a most unlikely place to find such a
thing, even on a Mac. It's like the developers (Apple developers, if I
remember right) of iTunes said, "You know, I'm tired of all these menus and
toolbars at the top of the window. Everyone expects them to be there. This
time, just for the fun of it, let's put it down at the bottom. We haven't
done that since we did..." whatever the last app they did it with. Why?

As I said in my original post, good OS design is about consistency as much
as anything. Unless there's an overriding reason to do something different
in a softwar interface, DON'T!
On Fri, 3 Apr 2009 12:52:52 +1300, Jamie Kahn Genet wrote:

salgud <spamboy6547@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Fri, 3 Apr 2009 08:37:44 +1300, Jamie Kahn Genet wrote:

salgud <spamboy6547@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 18:15:24 -0500, Luke wrote:

...is that the Home and End keys position the cursor to the beginning
and end of every input text field. Anyway to get Mac to emulate this
behavior?

The only thing? How about
1. Resizing/reshaping a window from any side/corner?

Not sure why this is needed. Seems more an issue of adjusting to a
different OS rather than the lack of a truly useful feature.
My guess is you don't do the kind of work where you want a window, say a
spread*** or a browser, on the right side of the screen, but only a
specific portion showing. You have to drag it away from the right side of
the screen, then resize it to see if it fits the way you want, then repeat
until it's just the way you want. In Windoze, just drag on the lower left
corner til it's sized correctly.

*shrugs* I suppose I'm used to quickly resizing a window without that
ability. I suppose it could shave a few seconds off such tasks :-) But
really it's far from important to me.

Being used to it, I'd have to guess, but I think it's one of those things
that once you get used to it, then lose it, you very much notice.
"Gotta resize this window...
Oops, want to make it bigger to the left.
Ok, drag it over to the left, then drag it bigger from the lower right
corner.
There it is!

2. Deleting any selected item anywhere with the delete key?

Command-delete (in The Finder) is no good for you?
Didn't know that shortcut (don't really like memorizing thousands of
shortcuts anyway. Should have put it on my list), but even so, in some
apps, Delete doesn't.

I should add command-delete in the Finder just puts an item in the
trash, and if you then hit command-shift-delete you'll empty the trash.
However there are menu commands for all of this with the KB shortcuts
next to them, so no need to remember everything.

Plus you can right click on most things and get a contextual menu with
common commands like 'Move to Trash', etc.

3. Escaping from virually anything with the escape key?

Command-. (period) is the shortcut for cancel/undo. Though come to think
of it I've not used it for years... (as cancel, anyway).

Well, I'll just add that to my list of shortcuts what I can memorize this
weekend instead of visiting my friends or going out walking by the lake...

Once again see the menus - Edit in this case - for more. No need to
memorise anything except 'look in the appropriate menu'. That's not
hard, is it?

Yes, I'm aware there are menus and how to use them. I also know that the
menus at the top are the slowest way I know of to do things in a GUI.
That's the main reason the GUI was invented - to give much quicker access
to frequently used commands, like Quit and Hide. And yes, keyboard
shortcuts, once you know them, are even quicker. Problem is, I don't really
want to memorize dozens, if not hundreds, of keyboard shortcuts. In a
well-designed OS, you shouldn't have to choose between memorizing keyboard
shortcuts and using menus for commonly used commands. That's pretty basic.

What are you trying to back out of?
Most everything, at one time or another.

What, like starting to drag something, and then changing your mind? Just
release whatever you're dragging onto the menubar which is a dead zone
for drag and drop, or hit Escape.

But other than dragging I can't think of anything else I need to back
out of that doesn't have a cancel or disconnect button/menu command or
the like. Seriously - give an example of something you're trying to back
out of. I'm a little confused here - genuinely so.

4. Controls consistently at the top of the window?

Which controls?
ALL of em! Buttons, menus, etc. In iCal, for example, the + button to add a
new calendar at the bottom of that area of the screen. In iTunes, the
button to incorporate a new CD into iTunes at the lower right of the
screen. A lot of apps put buttons anywhere they want, and we get to hunt
for them.

The menubar is always in the same place, though, and KB shortcuts stay
pretty darn consistant between apps. You can't really blame Apple for
what app designers do with the rest of their apps UI, can you? I can
think of plenty of Windows apps that don't group every button at the top
of their windows.

No offence - but it sounds to me like you're often forgetting about the
menubar when it comes to doing things. Apps tend to put only the most
commonly used commands into the UI as buttons, otherwise you'd suffer
enormous clutter.

I didn't say that there I couldn't do any of the things I mentioned in my
post. I know the menus are there and use them frequently. And I'm gradually
learning more and more keyboard shortcuts as I go. What I'm saying is, I
don't want to. I don't think this is good OS design.

I only jumped in because someone posted that the only thing they miss is
the "Home" and "End" keys, which I miss very much too. Along with a lot of
other things. Can I adapt? I am! But I can bitch about it if I want.

5. The 3 little icons (colored circles on the Mac) that always minimize,
close or maximize the window?

Problem with them?
They do entirely different things in different apps. The little yellow
circle is usually minimize to the Dock, but in iTunes it minimizes to a
small iTues player. In other apps, the red + does different things.

Red always closes the window IME. Or sometimes the whole app if that was
the only open window and it's been programmed that way (and if it makes
sense - as with a calulator app where you'd not ever have multiple
windows). But I'd say that's pretty consistent.

And yellow in iTunes minimises to the Dock. _Green_ minimises and
maximises the window.

6. A generally consistent interface?

I find the vast majority of Mac apps' UI elements look and behave the
same. What's giving you grief?

In short - more info please :-)
See above

I dunno - I think you're just very used to the way to do stuff in
Windows and having an understandably tough time adapting to life on a
Mac.
Going between OSX, Linux and Windows machines on a regular basis I guess
I've got used to adapting - though I still want to go Windows Key-C
(because the Windows Key is where the command key is on Macs) to copy in
Windows. Gods I loath that stupid useless key. But I digress...

If I were you I'd get a book like David Pogue's Missing Manual for
Switchers (I forget the exact title - but it's not hard to find) and
spend a while looking up common tasks and seeing what differences there
are.

Already bought it, and read it virtually cover to cover before I bought the
Mac. Very helpful. Without it, I'd have been much more miserable trying to
adapt. But having the book doesn't undo the fact that I can't drag a window
from any side/corner.

Or just post queries here when you're stumped, but do try googling first
as making no effort to find out for yourself will not win friends and
influence people ;-)

Regards,
Jamie Kahn Genet

I have figured out how to do all these things on a Mac. I wasn't asking,
"How do I change a window size?" I am saying I don't like having to change
it from just the one corner and that it's obviously still that way on a Mac
because M$ figured that one out first and Mac won't copy it because, God
forbid, it's "Windowish"!!!

I wasn't saying I don't know how to rip a CD into iTunes, only that the
button at the bottom of the screen is a most unlikely place to find such a
thing, even on a Mac. It's like the developers (Apple developers, if I
remember right) of iTunes said, "You know, I'm tired of all these menus and
toolbars at the top of the window. Everyone expects them to be there. This
time, just for the fun of it, let's put it down at the bottom. We haven't
done that since we did..." whatever the last app they did it with. Why?

As I said in my original post, good OS design is about consistency as much
as anything. Unless there's an overriding reason to do something different
in a softwar interface, DON'T!
On Fri, 3 Apr 2009 12:52:52 +1300, Jamie Kahn Genet wrote:

salgud <spamboy6547@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Fri, 3 Apr 2009 08:37:44 +1300, Jamie Kahn Genet wrote:

salgud <spamboy6547@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 18:15:24 -0500, Luke wrote:

...is that the Home and End keys position the cursor to the beginning
and end of every input text field. Anyway to get Mac to emulate this
behavior?

The only thing? How about
1. Resizing/reshaping a window from any side/corner?

Not sure why this is needed. Seems more an issue of adjusting to a
different OS rather than the lack of a truly useful feature.
My guess is you don't do the kind of work where you want a window, say a
spread*** or a browser, on the right side of the screen, but only a
specific portion showing. You have to drag it away from the right side of
the screen, then resize it to see if it fits the way you want, then repeat
until it's just the way you want. In Windoze, just drag on the lower left
corner til it's sized correctly.

*shrugs* I suppose I'm used to quickly resizing a window without that
ability. I suppose it could shave a few seconds off such tasks :-) But
really it's far from important to me.

Being used to it, I'd have to guess, but I think it's one of those things
that once you get used to it, then lose it, you very much notice.
"Gotta resize this window...
Oops, want to make it bigger to the left.
Ok, drag it over to the left, then drag it bigger from the lower right
corner.
There it is!

2. Deleting any selected item anywhere with the delete key?

Command-delete (in The Finder) is no good for you?
Didn't know that shortcut (don't really like memorizing thousands of
shortcuts anyway. Should have put it on my list), but even so, in some
apps, Delete doesn't.

I should add command-delete in the Finder just puts an item in the
trash, and if you then hit command-shift-delete you'll empty the trash.
However there are menu commands for all of this with the KB shortcuts
next to them, so no need to remember everything.

Plus you can right click on most things and get a contextual menu with
common commands like 'Move to Trash', etc.

3. Escaping from virually anything with the escape key?

Command-. (period) is the shortcut for cancel/undo. Though come to think
of it I've not used it for years... (as cancel, anyway).

Well, I'll just add that to my list of shortcuts what I can memorize this
weekend instead of visiting my friends or going out walking by the lake...

Once again see the menus - Edit in this case - for more. No need to
memorise anything except 'look in the appropriate menu'. That's not
hard, is it?

Yes, I'm aware there are menus and how to use them. I also know that the
menus at the top are the slowest way I know of to do things in a GUI.
That's the main reason the GUI was invented - to give much quicker access
to frequently used commands, like Quit and Hide. And yes, keyboard
shortcuts, once you know them, are even quicker. Problem is, I don't really
want to memorize dozens, if not hundreds, of keyboard shortcuts. In a
well-designed OS, you shouldn't have to choose between memorizing keyboard
shortcuts and using menus for commonly used commands. That's pretty basic.

What are you trying to back out of?
Most everything, at one time or another.

What, like starting to drag something, and then changing your mind? Just
release whatever you're dragging onto the menubar which is a dead zone
for drag and drop, or hit Escape.

But other than dragging I can't think of anything else I need to back
out of that doesn't have a cancel or disconnect button/menu command or
the like. Seriously - give an example of something you're trying to back
out of. I'm a little confused here - genuinely so.

4. Controls consistently at the top of the window?

Which controls?
ALL of em! Buttons, menus, etc. In iCal, for example, the + button to add a
new calendar at the bottom of that area of the screen. In iTunes, the
button to incorporate a new CD into iTunes at the lower right of the
screen. A lot of apps put buttons anywhere they want, and we get to hunt
for them.

The menubar is always in the same place, though, and KB shortcuts stay
pretty darn consistant between apps. You can't really blame Apple for
what app designers do with the rest of their apps UI, can you? I can
think of plenty of Windows apps that don't group every button at the top
of their windows.

No offence - but it sounds to me like you're often forgetting about the
menubar when it comes to doing things. Apps tend to put only the most
commonly used commands into the UI as buttons, otherwise you'd suffer
enormous clutter.

I didn't say that there I couldn't do any of the things I mentioned in my
post. I know the menus are there and use them frequently. And I'm gradually
learning more and more keyboard shortcuts as I go. What I'm saying is, I
don't want to. I don't think this is good OS design.

I only jumped in because someone posted that the only thing they miss is
the "Home" and "End" keys, which I miss very much too. Along with a lot of
other things. Can I adapt? I am! But I can bitch about it if I want.

5. The 3 little icons (colored circles on the Mac) that always minimize,
close or maximize the window?

Problem with them?
They do entirely different things in different apps. The little yellow
circle is usually minimize to the Dock, but in iTunes it minimizes to a
small iTues player. In other apps, the red + does different things.

Red always closes the window IME. Or sometimes the whole app if that was
the only open window and it's been programmed that way (and if it makes
sense - as with a calulator app where you'd not ever have multiple
windows). But I'd say that's pretty consistent.

And yellow in iTunes minimises to the Dock. _Green_ minimises and
maximises the window.

6. A generally consistent interface?

I find the vast majority of Mac apps' UI elements look and behave the
same. What's giving you grief?

In short - more info please :-)
See above

I dunno - I think you're just very used to the way to do stuff in
Windows and having an understandably tough time adapting to life on a
Mac.
Going between OSX, Linux and Windows machines on a regular basis I guess
I've got used to adapting - though I still want to go Windows Key-C
(because the Windows Key is where the command key is on Macs) to copy in
Windows. Gods I loath that stupid useless key. But I digress...

If I were you I'd get a book like David Pogue's Missing Manual for
Switchers (I forget the exact title - but it's not hard to find) and
spend a while looking up common tasks and seeing what differences there
are.

Already bought it, and read it virtually cover to cover before I bought the
Mac. Very helpful. Without it, I'd have been much more miserable trying to
adapt. But having the book doesn't undo the fact that I can't drag a window
from any side/corner.

Or just post queries here when you're stumped, but do try googling first
as making no effort to find out for yourself will not win friends and
influence people ;-)

Regards,
Jamie Kahn Genet

I have figured out how to do all these things on a Mac. I wasn't asking,
"How do I change a window size?" I am saying I don't like having to change
it from just the one corner and that it's obviously still that way on a Mac
because M$ figured that one out first and Mac won't copy it because, God
forbid, it's "Windowish"!!!

I wasn't saying I don't know how to rip a CD into iTunes, only that the
button at the bottom of the screen is a most unlikely place to find such a
thing, even on a Mac. It's like the developers (Apple developers, if I
remember right) of iTunes said, "You know, I'm tired of all these menus and
toolbars at the top of the window. Everyone expects them to be there. This
time, just for the fun of it, let's put it down at the bottom. We haven't
done that since we did..." whatever the last app they did it with. Why?

As I said in my original post, good OS design is about consistency as much
as anything. Unless there's an overriding reason to do something different
in a softwar interface, DON'T!
On Fri, 3 Apr 2009 12:52:52 +1300, Jamie Kahn Genet wrote:

salgud <spamboy6547@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Fri, 3 Apr 2009 08:37:44 +1300, Jamie Kahn Genet wrote:

salgud <spamboy6547@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 18:15:24 -0500, Luke wrote:

...is that the Home and End keys position the cursor to the beginning
and end of every input text field. Anyway to get Mac to emulate this
behavior?

The only thing? How about
1. Resizing/reshaping a window from any side/corner?

Not sure why this is needed. Seems more an issue of adjusting to a
different OS rather than the lack of a truly useful feature.
My guess is you don't do the kind of work where you want a window, say a
spread*** or a browser, on the right side of the screen, but only a
specific portion showing. You have to drag it away from the right side of
the screen, then resize it to see if it fits the way you want, then repeat
until it's just the way you want. In Windoze, just drag on the lower left
corner til it's sized correctly.

*shrugs* I suppose I'm used to quickly resizing a window without that
ability. I suppose it could shave a few seconds off such tasks :-) But
really it's far from important to me.

Being used to it, I'd have to guess, but I think it's one of those things
that once you get used to it, then lose it, you very much notice.
"Gotta resize this window...
Oops, want to make it bigger to the left.
Ok, drag it over to the left, then drag it bigger from the lower right
corner.
There it is!

2. Deleting any selected item anywhere with the delete key?

Command-delete (in The Finder) is no good for you?
Didn't know that shortcut (don't really like memorizing thousands of
shortcuts anyway. Should have put it on my list), but even so, in some
apps, Delete doesn't.

I should add command-delete in the Finder just puts an item in the
trash, and if you then hit command-shift-delete you'll empty the trash.
However there are menu commands for all of this with the KB shortcuts
next to them, so no need to remember everything.

Plus you can right click on most things and get a contextual menu with
common commands like 'Move to Trash', etc.

3. Escaping from virually anything with the escape key?

Command-. (period) is the shortcut for cancel/undo. Though come to think
of it I've not used it for years... (as cancel, anyway).

Well, I'll just add that to my list of shortcuts what I can memorize this
weekend instead of visiting my friends or going out walking by the lake...

Once again see the menus - Edit in this case - for more. No need to
memorise anything except 'look in the appropriate menu'. That's not
hard, is it?

Yes, I'm aware there are menus and how to use them. I also know that the
menus at the top are the slowest way I know of to do things in a GUI.
That's the main reason the GUI was invented - to give much quicker access
to frequently used commands, like Quit and Hide. And yes, keyboard
shortcuts, once you know them, are even quicker. Problem is, I don't really
want to memorize dozens, if not hundreds, of keyboard shortcuts. In a
well-designed OS, you shouldn't have to choose between memorizing keyboard
shortcuts and using menus for commonly used commands. That's pretty basic.

What are you trying to back out of?
Most everything, at one time or another.

What, like starting to drag something, and then changing your mind? Just
release whatever you're dragging onto the menubar which is a dead zone
for drag and drop, or hit Escape.

But other than dragging I can't think of anything else I need to back
out of that doesn't have a cancel or disconnect button/menu command or
the like. Seriously - give an example of something you're trying to back
out of. I'm a little confused here - genuinely so.

4. Controls consistently at the top of the window?

Which controls?
ALL of em! Buttons, menus, etc. In iCal, for example, the + button to add a
new calendar at the bottom of that area of the screen. In iTunes, the
button to incorporate a new CD into iTunes at the lower right of the
screen. A lot of apps put buttons anywhere they want, and we get to hunt
for them.

The menubar is always in the same place, though, and KB shortcuts stay
pretty darn consistant between apps. You can't really blame Apple for
what app designers do with the rest of their apps UI, can you? I can
think of plenty of Windows apps that don't group every button at the top
of their windows.

No offence - but it sounds to me like you're often forgetting about the
menubar when it comes to doing things. Apps tend to put only the most
commonly used commands into the UI as buttons, otherwise you'd suffer
enormous clutter.

I didn't say that there I couldn't do any of the things I mentioned in my
post. I know the menus are there and use them frequently. And I'm gradually
learning more and more keyboard shortcuts as I go. What I'm saying is, I
don't want to. I don't think this is good OS design.

I only jumped in because someone posted that the only thing they miss is
the "Home" and "End" keys, which I miss very much too. Along with a lot of
other things. Can I adapt? I am! But I can bitch about it if I want.

5. The 3 little icons (colored circles on the Mac) that always minimize,
close or maximize the window?

Problem with them?
They do entirely different things in different apps. The little yellow
circle is usually minimize to the Dock, but in iTunes it minimizes to a
small iTues player. In other apps, the red + does different things.

Red always closes the window IME. Or sometimes the whole app if that was
the only open window and it's been programmed that way (and if it makes
sense - as with a calulator app where you'd not ever have multiple
windows). But I'd say that's pretty consistent.

And yellow in iTunes minimises to the Dock. _Green_ minimises and
maximises the window.

6. A generally consistent interface?

I find the vast majority of Mac apps' UI elements look and behave the
same. What's giving you grief?

In short - more info please :-)
See above

I dunno - I think you're just very used to the way to do stuff in
Windows and having an understandably tough time adapting to life on a
Mac.
Going between OSX, Linux and Windows machines on a regular basis I guess
I've got used to adapting - though I still want to go Windows Key-C
(because the Windows Key is where the command key is on Macs) to copy in
Windows. Gods I loath that stupid useless key. But I digress...

If I were you I'd get a book like David Pogue's Missing Manual for
Switchers (I forget the exact title - but it's not hard to find) and
spend a while looking up common tasks and seeing what differences there
are.

Already bought it, and read it virtually cover to cover before I bought the
Mac. Very helpful. Without it, I'd have been much more miserable trying to
adapt. But having the book doesn't undo the fact that I can't drag a window
from any side/corner.

Or just post queries here when you're stumped, but do try googling first
as making no effort to find out for yourself will not win friends and
influence people ;-)

Regards,
Jamie Kahn Genet

I have figured out how to do all these things on a Mac. I wasn't asking,
"How do I change a window size?" I am saying I don't like having to change
it from just the one corner and that it's obviously still that way on a Mac
because M$ figured that one out first and Mac won't copy it because, God
forbid, it's "Windowish"!!!

I wasn't saying I don't know how to rip a CD into iTunes, only that the
button at the bottom of the screen is a most unlikely place to find such a
thing, even on a Mac. It's like the developers (Apple developers, if I
remember right) of iTunes said, "You know, I'm tired of all these menus and
toolbars at the top of the window. Everyone expects them to be there. This
time, just for the fun of it, let's put it down at the bottom. We haven't
done that since we did..." whatever the last app they did it with. Why?

As I said in my original post, good OS design is about consistency as much
as anything. Unless there's an overriding reason to do something different
in a softwar interface, DON'T!
On Fri, 3 Apr 2009 12:52:52 +1300, Jamie Kahn Genet wrote:

salgud <spamboy6547@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Fri, 3 Apr 2009 08:37:44 +1300, Jamie Kahn Genet wrote:

salgud <spamboy6547@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 18:15:24 -0500, Luke wrote:

...is that the Home and End keys position the cursor to the beginning
and end of every input text field. Anyway to get Mac to emulate this
behavior?

The only thing? How about
1. Resizing/reshaping a window from any side/corner?

Not sure why this is needed. Seems more an issue of adjusting to a
different OS rather than the lack of a truly useful feature.
My guess is you don't do the kind of work where you want a window, say a
spread*** or a browser, on the right side of the screen, but only a
specific portion showing. You have to drag it away from the right side of
the screen, then resize it to see if it fits the way you want, then repeat
until it's just the way you want. In Windoze, just drag on the lower left
corner til it's sized correctly.

*shrugs* I suppose I'm used to quickly resizing a window without that
ability. I suppose it could shave a few seconds off such tasks :-) But
really it's far from important to me.

Being used to it, I'd have to guess, but I think it's one of those things
that once you get used to it, then lose it, you very much notice.
"Gotta resize this window...
Oops, want to make it bigger to the left.
Ok, drag it over to the left, then drag it bigger from the lower right
corner.
There it is!

2. Deleting any selected item anywhere with the delete key?

Command-delete (in The Finder) is no good for you?
Didn't know that shortcut (don't really like memorizing thousands of
shortcuts anyway. Should have put it on my list), but even so, in some
apps, Delete doesn't.

I should add command-delete in the Finder just puts an item in the
trash, and if you then hit command-shift-delete you'll empty the trash.
However there are menu commands for all of this with the KB shortcuts
next to them, so no need to remember everything.

Plus you can right click on most things and get a contextual menu with
common commands like 'Move to Trash', etc.

3. Escaping from virually anything with the escape key?

Command-. (period) is the shortcut for cancel/undo. Though come to think
of it I've not used it for years... (as cancel, anyway).

Well, I'll just add that to my list of shortcuts what I can memorize this
weekend instead of visiting my friends or going out walking by the lake...

Once again see the menus - Edit in this case - for more. No need to
memorise anything except 'look in the appropriate menu'. That's not
hard, is it?

Yes, I'm aware there are menus and how to use them. I also know that the
menus at the top are the slowest way I know of to do things in a GUI.
That's the main reason the GUI was invented - to give much quicker access
to frequently used commands, like Quit and Hide. And yes, keyboard
shortcuts, once you know them, are even quicker. Problem is, I don't really
want to memorize dozens, if not hundreds, of keyboard shortcuts. In a
well-designed OS, you shouldn't have to choose between memorizing keyboard
shortcuts and using menus for commonly used commands. That's pretty basic.

What are you trying to back out of?
Most everything, at one time or another.

What, like starting to drag something, and then changing your mind? Just
release whatever you're dragging onto the menubar which is a dead zone
for drag and drop, or hit Escape.

But other than dragging I can't think of anything else I need to back
out of that doesn't have a cancel or disconnect button/menu command or
the like. Seriously - give an example of something you're trying to back
out of. I'm a little confused here - genuinely so.

4. Controls consistently at the top of the window?

Which controls?
ALL of em! Buttons, menus, etc. In iCal, for example, the + button to add a
new calendar at the bottom of that area of the screen. In iTunes, the
button to incorporate a new CD into iTunes at the lower right of the
screen. A lot of apps put buttons anywhere they want, and we get to hunt
for them.

The menubar is always in the same place, though, and KB shortcuts stay
pretty darn consistant between apps. You can't really blame Apple for
what app designers do with the rest of their apps UI, can you? I can
think of plenty of Windows apps that don't group every button at the top
of their windows.

No offence - but it sounds to me like you're often forgetting about the
menubar when it comes to doing things. Apps tend to put only the most
commonly used commands into the UI as buttons, otherwise you'd suffer
enormous clutter.

I didn't say that there I couldn't do any of the things I mentioned in my
post. I know the menus are there and use them frequently. And I'm gradually
learning more and more keyboard shortcuts as I go. What I'm saying is, I
don't want to. I don't think this is good OS design.

I only jumped in because someone posted that the only thing they miss is
the "Home" and "End" keys, which I miss very much too. Along with a lot of
other things. Can I adapt? I am! But I can bitch about it if I want.

5. The 3 little icons (colored circles on the Mac) that always minimize,
close or maximize the window?

Problem with them?
They do entirely different things in different apps. The little yellow
circle is usually minimize to the Dock, but in iTunes it minimizes to a
small iTues player. In other apps, the red + does different things.

Red always closes the window IME. Or sometimes the whole app if that was
the only open window and it's been programmed that way (and if it makes
sense - as with a calulator app where you'd not ever have multiple
windows). But I'd say that's pretty consistent.

And yellow in iTunes minimises to the Dock. _Green_ minimises and
maximises the window.

6. A generally consistent interface?

I find the vast majority of Mac apps' UI elements look and behave the
same. What's giving you grief?

In short - more info please :-)
See above

I dunno - I think you're just very used to the way to do stuff in
Windows and having an understandably tough time adapting to life on a
Mac.
Going between OSX, Linux and Windows machines on a regular basis I guess
I've got used to adapting - though I still want to go Windows Key-C
(because the Windows Key is where the command key is on Macs) to copy in
Windows. Gods I loath that stupid useless key. But I digress...

If I were you I'd get a book like David Pogue's Missing Manual for
Switchers (I forget the exact title - but it's not hard to find) and
spend a while looking up common tasks and seeing what differences there
are.

Already bought it, and read it virtually cover to cover before I bought the
Mac. Very helpful. Without it, I'd have been much more miserable trying to
adapt. But having the book doesn't undo the fact that I can't drag a window
from any side/corner.

Or just post queries here when you're stumped, but do try googling first
as making no effort to find out for yourself will not win friends and
influence people ;-)

Regards,
Jamie Kahn Genet

I have figured out how to do all these things on a Mac. I wasn't asking,
"How do I change a window size?" I am saying I don't like having to change
it from just the one corner and that it's obviously still that way on a Mac
because M$ figured that one out first and Mac won't copy it because, God
forbid, it's "Windowish"!!!

I wasn't saying I don't know how to rip a CD into iTunes, only that the
button at the bottom of the screen is a most unlikely place to find such a
thing, even on a Mac. It's like the developers (Apple developers, if I
remember right) of iTunes said, "You know, I'm tired of all these menus and
toolbars at the top of the window. Everyone expects them to be there. This
time, just for the fun of it, let's put it down at the bottom. We haven't
done that since we did..." whatever the last app they did it with. Why?

As I said in my original post, good OS design is about consistency as much
as anything. Unless there's an overriding reason to do something different
in a softwar interface, DON'T!
.

Loading