Re: Is any part of Ethernet circuitry tied to Open Firmware?

In article <230620082302478907%this.is@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
Mark Conrad <this.is@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

In article <michelle-BB5A38.19120623062008@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Michelle
Steiner <michelle@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Exactly how is the OS X installer supposed to install Windows drivers
when Windows is not installed, you ignorant buffoon?

Well, dimwit, I am no programmer, but the way I understand drivers
is that they are low-level things, often written in a machine-like
language called Forth, then stored in ROM or flash eprom.

LOL... No. They are usually written in C and assembly, and they are
stored on the hard drive along with all the other drivers. Of course for
them to be stored on the hard drive, the file system must exist. And for
the file system to exist, an operating system (Windows) must be
installed.

The job of a driver is to connect periperal devices like keyboards,
monitors, etc. to the CPU, before any OS even loads.

No, the operating system loads the drivers as part of the startup
process.

Otherwise your keyboard etc. would not even allow you to load
an OS, you pathetic lamebrain.

Keyboards are the exception. Very simple, rudimentary keyboard
functionality is indeed supported before the operating system loads so
that users can interact with the firmware before the operating system
loads. Other hardware, such as Ethernet interfaces and so on are not
needed at that time, and are therefore generally not available until the
operating system has loaded drivers for them.

Now who were you calling a dimwit? ; )

Is not a Mac supposed to be plug-and-play?

The Mac is, but we're talking about Windows here, dumbkopf!

Not that simple, numbskull. We are actually talking about many
things that constitute this overall problem that other Mac users
are going to run into if they try to take advantage of Vista.

At the end of the day, we're talking about a Windows issue. You're
trying to cloud the issue, but it's not going to work. A+ for effort
though.

Here are some of the things you are glossing over, dunderhead:

1) The Boot Camp created partition.

An empty partition can't hold a driver for an operating system (Windows)
that isn't installed yet.

2) The DSL modem itself, a Siemens "SE567"

This wasn't overlooked - it simply has no bearing what-so-ever.

3) Mac hardware driver for the DSL modem, after all
the DSL modem does directly hook up to Mac circuitry,
before the Windows OS even "sees" the DSL modem.

Nope. There is no driver for the DSL modem.

Mac OS X has a Ethernet interface driver, and that's all that is needed.
What you were missing in your Windows install was a Windows driver for
the Ethernet interface.

You would be in a similar situation if you had installed the retail copy
of Windows on a generic PC.

You can refuse to acknowledge this fact all you want - it's still the
truth.

Apple does not even offer an option to install those particular
drivers, during the ordinary OS X install process.

That's because they're *Windows* drivers, and they can't be installed
until *after* Windows is installed.

Next you will be telling me that the Mac's monitor can't be
used because Windows is using the monitor, therefore the
monitor driver must be a *Windows* driver - - - and
therefore according to your weird reasoning the Mac monitor
can't be used until Windows is installed.

What a thoroughly confused klutz you are.

If you boot up Windows, Windows *is* using the monitor. And since Mac OS
X isn't running, Mac OS X naturally cannot use it at that time.

It seems *you* are confused.

Take responsibility for your own mistakes.

I always do, unlike you, chowderhead.

No, you don't. Otherwise you would acknowledge what I've told you over
and over again in this thread:

The retail copy of Windows does not come with drivers for every possible
hardware component. It's common practice to install drivers after
installing the retail copy of Windows to get things like Ethernet
interfaces, video cards, and other hardware working correctly.

The only reason you don't have to do this for PCs that have Windows
pre-installed is that the manufacturer already did that step for you.

As I understand it, a "driver" is likely to be anywhere, in the
device itself, in the computer, in the OS, even possibly parts of
the driver code might be in several different locations.

Announcing that a driver "must be" a Windows driver just displays
your ignorance for all to see, when you do not know the actual details
of the situation.

You assume everyone who says so is just guessing and has no experience
with such things. That's a bad assumption. ; ) It couldn't be further
from the truth.

Bless David Empson, he only came up with a partial solution, dumbo.

My DSL modem _still_ does not work with Vista, dingbat.

The *Apple* trick of forcing the Mac user to do a two-step install
of the DSL driver just plain did not work with Vista, the usual driver
install messages did not come onscreen when I inserted the Mac install
DVD into the Macs DVD slot, after booting into Vista.

(the Apple two-step driver install works okay with Windows XP)

Now I expect you to jump right in and blame it all on
the Vista OS, so don't disappoint me, you dopey imbecile.

Nah. It's purely PEBKAC at this point.

Thing is, you might accidentally be right, but then again it could be
due to a variety of other things, such as inserting the Apple DVD
drivers has to be done _fairly_ _soon_ after installing the OS.

(Why, I don't know, just grasping at straws)

As usual.

Gawd help any ordinary Mac user trying to get a DSL modem driver
installed to work with a Vista partition on a Mac, it is a damn near
impossible task, with no one to help the hapless Mac user.

I've done it plenty of times. : ) It was no trouble at all.

Looks like an all nighter, experimenting and troubleshooting.

For you, maybe... But then you seem to *want* to make things hard and
insult anyone who might be able to actually help. Such is life!

--
Please send all responses to the relevant news group rather than directly
to me, as E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my very hungry
SPAM filter. Due to Google's refusal to prevent spammers from posting
messages through their servers, I often ignore posts from Google Groups.
You'll need to use a real news reader if you want me to see your posts.

JR
.

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