Re: (OT) Giving up on science [Was: Giving Up on Leopard]

In article <uce-166B6A.17514109012008@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
Gregory Weston <uce@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

In article <sdfkj-63F57C.16143609012008@xxxxxxxxxxxx>,
MNP <sdfkj@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Just to understand how unique these properties are try to
design
a
genealogy-even from fiction that meets the following criteria:
1) The Number of words must be divisible by 7 evenly (In each
of
these
constraints, it is assumed that the divisions are without
remainders.)
2)The number of letters must also be divisible by 7.
3)The number of vowels and the number of consonants must be
divisible
by
7.
4)The number of words that begin with a vowel must be divisible
by
7.
5)The number of words that begin with a consonant must be
divisible
by
7.
6)The number of words that occur more than once must be
divisible
by
7.
7)The number of words that occur in more than one form must be
divisible
by 7.
8)The number of words that occur in only one form shall be
divisible
by
7.
9)The number of nouns shall be divisible by 7.
10)Only 7 words shall not be nouns.
11)The number of names in the genealogy shall be divisible by
7.
12)Only 7 other kinds of nouns are permitted.
13)The number of male names shall be divisible by 7.
14)The number of generations shall be 21, also divisible by 7.

There are even more features in the numerical structure of the
words
themselves. As you may know, both the Hebrew and
Greek use the letters of the alphabet for numerical values.
Therefore,
any specific word in either Hebrew or Greek- has a
numerical value of its own by adding up the values of the
letters
in
that particular word. The study of the numerical values of
words is called gametria.

The 72 vocabulary words add up to a gametrical value of 42,364,
or
7
x
6,052.

The 72 words appear in 90 forms-some appear in more than one
form.
The
numeric value of the 90 forms is 54,075, or 7 x 7,725. Exactly.

It becomes immediately obvious that hidden below the surface
are
aspects
of design that cannot be accidental or just coincidence.

What language was that written in?

The Old Testament was written in Hebrew and Aramaic. The New
Testament
was written in Greek because that was the language most commonly
used
at
the time.

?which language does those stats refer to

Both Greek and Hebrew and I would think Aramaic since these complex
mathematical patterns run through the entire Bible, cover to cover.

Payne and Panin or both mathematicians about 100 years ago that
discovered the patterns over many years of Biblical study. These have
nothing to do with "Bible Codes". When you have 30 patterns in only 7
words there is obviously a Designer involved. When it can't be
replicated in any language at any time in history, its obviously not
authored by any person.
http://www.bereanpublishers.com/Apologetics/Book_Info_On_Ivan_Panin.htm
http://www.laymanstraining.com/numerics.html
His work has been
investigated by the Nobel Research Foundation of Los Angeles, USA.
Regarding Panin's conclusion that "the Bible could not possibly have
been written, except by Divine inspiration of God Himself", their
verdict is - "so far as our investigation has proceeded, we find the
evidence overwhelming in favor of such a conclusion."

Then, frankly, they're idiots. The pattern of words exists. Thus a
person could have written it. An answer to Panin's revelatory study is
this: If you cherry pick, you can find patterns anywhere.

That's a logical rebuttal for a long passage. Unfortunately its not
applicable to the first verse of the Bible - 7 words with over 30
mathematical patterns. Many of them involving the number 7. You can't
cherrypick much with 7 words!

You can if what you're cherrypicking is the very translations you're
using.

He is using the original Hebrew. Only 7 words. Over 30 patterns. No
translations involved.

Now the first two verses, a natural division...
w have exactly 42 words...6 x 7
w leaving 119...17 x 7

Staggering. When you subtract a multiple of 7 from a multiple of 7
you're left with a multiple of 7? Amazing. The mind boggles. Truly this
is evidence of divinity.

Now you're cherrypicking. Its not one design. Its the fact there are
such a huge number of them, all related. The chance of this happening
by chance is beyond logic.

I'm not the one who presented it as somehow amazing that 7a - 7b = 7c
where a, b and c are all integers. You're talking about the
miraculousness of dozens of patterns when a significant number of them
derive by simple arithmetic from the others. Somewhat dilutes the
strength of your argument.

The last verse, another natural division...
w has exactly 14 words...2 x 7
w leaving 147...3 x 7 x 7

Oh. My. Heavens. You subtract a *different* multiple of 7 from your
original multiple of 7 and you *still* end up with a multiple of 7?

Well. My eyes have been opened.

Here's a simple truth for you: Complexity does not imply design. And
simple mathematical facts don't imply the hand of a divine creator.

Ignoring immense odds of multiple recurring patterns, all interrelated
is just closing your mind to the facts.

If the odds were actually immense, that would be a reasonable argument.
As it is, the chance of observing patterns such as those that excite you
is empirically very close to 1. Makes them not so special after all.
Especially when you take into account that the observer was massaging
the data.
.