Re: italic, bold, etc. in Safari

Thanks for your reply, Sander ---

Sander Tekelenburg wrote:
> In article <1131635609.023512.122470@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
> larrysulky@xxxxxxxxx wrote:
>
> > Hi--
> >
> > I've hunted for any references to my problem but have found nothing.
> >
> > I have a few very simple web pages
>
> Provide a URL. Without seeing your code all anyone can do is guess.


http://ca.geocities.com/handydad/elomi/elomi-sentence.html

>
> > that just use basic HTML, including
> > the good old <B> and <I> tags.
>
> There's absolutely nothing good about these. They are meaningless. You
> should avoid presentational markup like the plague. Use only logical
> markup. Then, if you want to suggest some specific presentation be used,
> use CSS for that. For example
>
> <P><B>Don't</B> use presentational HTML</P>
>
> means nothing, whereas
>
> <P><EM>Don't</EM> use presentational HTML</P>
>
> does have meaning. If you think that meaning is best presented, on
> visual browsers, through bold text, then use CSS to say so:
>
> EM {font-weight: bold}

Fair enough. Is there HTML logical markup for "example of foreign
language text" and "example of corresponding English language text"?
Because that's what I'm using <B> and <I> for on these pages, and never
for any other purpose whatsoever. Frankly, I don't care how they are
rendered -- bold, blinking, bright blue, whatever -- as long as they
are rendered differently from regular text.

I specifically chose to do this because I figured that any browser, no
matter how rudimentary or on what system, will surely at least be able
to interpret <B> and <I>. But I did test with <EM>, and it doesn't
render any differently from regular text either.

When this problem cropped up, I figured maybe I had to do things with
CSS anyway, so that's when I went to this page (see next insertion)....

>
> [...]
>

> > Now something really odd: I found a typical webpage that had bold
> > stuff, and downloaded the page to my desktop. It uses <B> for bold and
> > it works fine on the web. But the same page does not show any bold when
> > I open it on my desktop.
>
> Again: URL please.

http://developer.apple.com/documentation/AppleApplications/Reference/SafariWebContent/Articles/AddingStylewithCSS.html

Looks great on the web, using <B>, and doesn't on my desktop.

>
> > [...] The sizes of headings (plain old H1, H2, etc.) are
> > fine, but they too don't show bold or italic (though that's really up
> > to the browser defaults).
>
> The presentation of *everything* in HTML is up to the browser (and thus
> the user). The HTML definition never says that something must be
> presented this way or that (it may sometimes mention possible examples
> though).

Quite so. That's why I went for lowest common denominator. I could use
EM instead of B, but then I would just be saying 'Let's pretend that EM
means "foreign language example", instead of B'. Or I could do the
whole thing in XML and set up an XSL transform to render to HTML...but
then I still have to use the HTML tagset to visually present the info,
and I don't even know that all browsers will deal with XSL.

I really thought I was doing the right thing by trying to go
bare-bones, and I really figured Safari would support it.

---larry

.

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