Re: How Apple Won Our Mini Enterprise Contract

ZnU wrote:
In article <hgben7$v2u$1@xxxxxxxx>, Nashton <nana@xxxxx> wrote:

ZnU wrote:
In article <hg96as$72d$1@xxxxxxxx>, Nashton <nana@xxxxx> wrote:

ZnU wrote:
In article <hg8oos$kcu$4@xxxxxxxx>, Nashton <nana@xxxxx> wrote:

Tim Murray wrote:
Jim wrote:
http://foliovision.com/2009/12/15/apple-mini-e


Should be

http://foliovision.com/2009/12/15/apple-mini-enterprise

This is exactly the kind of thing Macs are suited for in the enterprise.

For anybody who runs a business on ...minis, may God help him.
Huh? What's wrong with minis?

They could have purchased an Xserve with a raid configuration and used Netboot for all their hardwired computers. Less hassle and only one computer to upgrade.
How in the world is an Xserve a substitute for six Mac minis?
Silly me. I imagine that the term Xserve doesn't really allude to servers.

Or are you saying they should get an Xserve as well, for netboot? Routinely netbooting desktop systems is fairly pointless, and also sort of makes things awkward if you want to add some laptops. Netbooting for imaging purposes might be worthwhile. That $999 server version of the mini would be a better choice for that in this deployment than a $3K+ Xserve. Maybe also run Retrospect for client backup. (Though I'd be tempted to just write some shell scripts to handle such simple backup needs.)
I paid thousands to create my FMP database solution and I'm paying a few thousand $ to integrate it with Daylite.

Do you think, for 1 second that it would be prudent to run this on a "desktop" computer with laptop innards?
For anything under a couple of dozen client systems? Absolutely, yes. Internal mirrored software RAID on one of the new server minis, external Time Machine backups, and periodic offsite backups via an Internet backup service or (if the Internet connection isn't good enough for that) USB key or portable external HD.
Listen, I am in the medical business. Confidentiality and preservation of records is paramount. The more precautions I take to safeguard confidential files, the better. How do you think it would look in court if data was lost and I wasn't using a commercial grade backup program such as Retrospect? I believe this applies to any serious business, irrespective of its nature.

"Sorry, your honor, I lost all my charts, but I was using a thing called "Time Machine", available on all consumer Apple Desktop computers *and I was running my databases on Mac ....minis."

One of the things one learns when setting up reliable systems is that sometimes the best way to achieve reliability is to keep things as simple as possible, so there's not much that can go wrong, rather than deploying elaborate "enterprise grade" solutions that create additional problems with system integration and, as a result of their complexity, increase the odds of user error.

Automated cyclical backups, extra power supply, extra hot swappable hard drive. Oh yes, this is really complex.


Time Machine works quite well for local backups and is built into the system, virtually eliminating future compatibility issues.

Time machine is a consumer grade product and depends on the reliability of one external hard drive. It shouldn't even be looked at as a commercial grade backup solution, period.
You can't be serious when you say that this can substitute, even partially, my solution.


That said, the above setup with Retrospect substituting for Time Machine is also perfectly workable, and I'd recommend it in some scenarios, especially in cases where there was more data than would fit comfortably onto a single backup volume and/or offsite backups were being performed on tape so there was a need for something like Retrospect anyway.

I can't see why it wouldn't be adequate for data that can fit comfortably in an external hard drive.


Maybe a Mini is marginally more likely to fail than an Xserve, but it's so much cheaper you can have an entire extra machine as a hot spare and still spend half as much, and I'm quite certain that *two* minis are more reliable than one Xserve.
I bought my Xserver Cluster with 3 GBs of RAM off eBay for a song and had it thoroughly checked out by a tech in Fredericton.

Which is really hillarious in light of what you wrote above. "Yes, your honor, it's true that I bought my server from eBay".

I bought via eBay, got it verified by an Apple tech and the seller was a Mac shop.


I had a spare HD on which I write a backup image biweekly. I also purchased a spare power supply. I run a serious business and the extra money spent to assure that my data doesn't get lost or corrupted is small change compared to the hassle, frustration and work involved in trying to recover from a mess.

You've built a system that probably has *lower* total reliability than a system with an entire extra mini as a hot spare, and you've spent more money to do it.

A few hundred dollars for peace of mind. Isn't that an Apple advocate's mantra? ;) Oh wait, I only paid 1200 with the power supply and the spare hard drive.
The only thing I would like to have is LOM that's not available on G5s.


Pulleeaase.
It's hard to say without knowing your exact business needs, but it rather sounds like you're spending substantially more than you need to be. Consultants have a tendency to make projects unnecessarily complex to justify their own existence.
The consultants I use are the best in the business, recommended by marketcircle and FMP. have yet to go through any major catastrophe.

I'm not saying they're bad at their jobs. But it sounds like they're the sort of shop that implements a specific sort of solution, which means they're probably not too likely to tell you if there's some other easier sort of solution.

How can there be an easier solution than I have? You're just hell-bent on proving that mac minis are as reliable as an Xserve or a dedicated Mac Pro?




For instance, we've found that custom web applications
can often substitute for custom FMP databases, sometimes (because of the elimination of licensing fees and the fact that it's less specialized work) at lower cost and with less in-house complexity (because it's easier to get a web app hosted by an outside provider).


I made an initial investment of 2500 $ a decade or so ago. I updated my solution with a subsequent investment of 4000$. I have fully integrated my solution with Daylite and Billings via a developer and I am paperless, have backups coming out of my ying yangs, (I can generate custom letters, input names and addresses once and have accounts receivable appear from FMP to Billings) and I should change...why again?

Let's see; 18 years in operation. Some 8000$ in todays money over 18 years is 44 $/year to run my business the way I want it. I've had other people look at my solution and wanting to use it themselves.


Incidentally, if people think this sort of nonsense is bad with routine business infrastructure, try the film/video production world. I had a meeting with some clients about post production workflow on a feature film last month and pointed out that the $6000 Mac Pro they were buying for the guy doing the offline edit was complete unnecessary, and the 720p ProRes files we were providing them with could literally be edited just fine on a $800 Mac mini. I proceeded to demonstrate editing the files on a 2007-model MacBook Pro. Of course they bought the $6000 tower anyway, and I'm sure took me a little less seriously because I suggested they didn't really need it.
This is a totally different matter.

No, it's pretty much the same thing. Your whole "Sure, cheaper gear would work just fine but I need to buy really expensive stuff to cover by ass" thing is pretty much standard practice in the film industry.

.

Relevant Pages