Re: Pystar costs the same...

In article <znu-53067C.15550125102009@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
ZnU <znu@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

In article <alangbaker-92D567.12163825102009@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
Alan Baker <alangbaker@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

In article <znu-24ADB2.13471324102009@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
ZnU <znu@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

In article <alangbaker-410058.02061524102009@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
Alan Baker <alangbaker@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

In article <0001HW.C70801750021F427F01846D8@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
Fa-groon <fa-groon@xxxxxxx> wrote:

Actually I have. Recordings that my band has made sold quite well.
Thing is, that people who bought them could play them on any
grammophone or CD player that they wished. The publisher,
Electrical and Musical Industries, Ltd., actually made and sold
grammophones as well as producing and manufacturing the recordings.
Yet, no EMI record or CD that I have ever seen says "To be played
on EMI branded equipment only."

Could they copy them and sell those copies to others as they wished?

Nobody appears to be proposing that such a thing should be allowed for
Apple software.

IOW, I agree that when I buy an Apple OSX package that I am not to
install said OS on any but the one computer and I honor that. But
AFAIC, installing it on any single computer that I wish to install
it on comes under the heading of Fair Use. This opinion needs to be
tested in the courts, but until some higher authority rules on it,
I will interpret the legality of Apple's EULA as I see fit.

IOW, you'll ignore an agreement into which you entered freely.

Copyright creates a specific set of rights for both copyright owners and
consumers. The notion that copyright owners should be able to impose
additional arbitrary restrictions through the conceit of selling
licenses rather than products -- but in transactions that look precisely
like the sale of products -- is not intuitively obvious.

I'm sorry, but you're wrong.

Copyright gives me the absolute right to the product of my intellect.

Copyright merely gives you an exclusive right to make copies of a
product of your intellect, subject to various fair use related
exemptions.

Any additional restrictions must be imposed through something with the
force of a contract. You may be able to use your exclusive right to make
copies as leverage to negotiate a contract favorable to you, of course.

If I then choose to license that technology to you and you choose to
enter into that license in order to use my intellectual property, my
restrictions on its use aren't "arbitrary": they are mutually agreed
upon.

No one purchasing software today could honestly say that they didn't
know that they were actually only purchasing a license to *use* the
sofware.

A license is (or so licensors hope) a form of contract. Not all contract
terms are legally enforceable, even with real honest-to-dog negotiated
good faith contracts signed in blood and witnessed by nuns, or whatever.
And this is particularly true for licensed software sold in transactions
that look like the sale of a product, that the user often doesn't have
convenient access to before the sale, and that are rather obviously
contracts of adhesion.

But the term to only use the software on Apple's hardware would
certainly be one that was enforceable with an old-fashioned signed
contract.


In point of fact, as I've mentioned previously in discussions on this
subject, courts have already de facto rejected your position that
copyright owners can impose any terms they like on people who use their
software, by ruling that license agreements cannot ban the resale of
software. New York courts have also ruled that provisions banning the
publishing of software benchmarks are invalid in some instances.

Courts evaluate the validity of individual terms of licenses and
contracts all the time. If you want to argue that Apple deserves to win
this case, you have to advance a specific argument as to why this
specific EULA provision should be enforceable; you can't simply claim
that copyright owners have an absolute right to impose whatever terms
they like; they demonstrably do not have such a right.

(Mind you, I think this particular EULA clause probably will be found to
be legally enforceable.)

Tell it to Fa-groon. He seems to think you backed him on this.

--
"The iPhone doesn't have a speaker phone" -- "I checked very carefully" --
"I checked Apple's web pages" -- Edwin on the iPhone
"It is Mac OS X, not BSD.' -- 'From Mac OS to BSD Unix." -- "It's BSD Unix with Apple's APIs and GUI on top of it' -- 'nothing but BSD Unix' (Edwin on Mac OS X)
'[The IBM PC] could boot multiple OS, such as DOS, C/PM, GEM, etc.' --
'I claimed nothing about GEM other than it was available software for the
IBM PC. (Edwin on GEM)
'Solaris is just a marketing rename of Sun OS.' -- 'Sun OS is not included
on the timeline of Solaris because it's a different OS.' (Edwin on Sun)
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Pystar costs the same...
    ... The notion that copyright owners should be able to impose ... copies as leverage to negotiate a contract favorable to you, ... enter into that license in order to use my intellectual property, ...
    (comp.sys.mac.advocacy)
  • Re: Pystar costs the same...
    ... ZnU wrote: ... The notion that copyright owners should be able to impose ... copies as leverage to negotiate a contract favorable to you, ... enter into that license in order to use my intellectual property, ...
    (comp.sys.mac.advocacy)
  • Re: Pystar costs the same...
    ... ZnU wrote: ... The notion that copyright owners should be able to impose ... copies as leverage to negotiate a contract favorable to you, ... enter into that license in order to use my intellectual property, ...
    (comp.sys.mac.advocacy)
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