Re: Liberal white supremacist makes donations to Planned Parenthood

On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 23:10:03 -0700, ed wrote
(in article
<d62ceb00-cd2e-411a-9b8e-1067a6fe5ce9@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>):

On Apr 29, 10:25 pm, George Graves <gmgrav...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 20:47:29 -0700, ed wrote
(in article
<a8794dda-da95-4d6f-bf33-b10c1ffe2...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>):
On Apr 29, 6:12 pm, George Graves <gmgrav...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 16:26:44 -0700, ed wrote
(in article
<ddfd29e3-c632-4bea-9f1e-48205d276...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>):
<snip>
<snip>
Of course excess caloric intake is the cause of obesity just as stoppage
of
the heart is the cause of death. But the heart stoppage can be caused by
something else other than a massive coronary. A perfectly working heart
can
stop due to cancer, organ failure due to diabetes, loss of blood, a
stroke,
etc. I.E. its not necessarily the ROOT cause of death. Obesity. likewise
can
come from a number of factors including glandular malfunction, genetic
predisposition, or, just overeating as you say.

none of which cause obesity, without excess caloric intake.  how can
you call those other factors the ROOT cause, when they don't, by
themselves cause obesity?

They DO cause obesity.

NOT without excess caloric intake.

The average human needs between 1200 -2000 calories a
day to maintain proper body weight. Men need more, women need less, short,
small-boned people need less than big-boned tall people and active people
doing hard manual labor need more than people with sedentary lifestyles. Now
let's say that you are in the middle and all the charts say that you need
1600 calories/day to maintain a healthy body weight. But, when you take in
1600 calories a day, you gain weight, In fact, when you eat 1200 calories a
day, you gain weight.

then the 1600 calories OBVIOUSLY does not apply to you - the 1200-2000
calories (it's actually much higher than that) average is a GUIDELINE,
not a set rule. people VARY. again, if you gain weight on 1200
calories a day, your maintenance level is obviously lower, and
GUIDELINES of 1200-2000 DOES NOT apply. therefore, if you are trying
to maintain, and you eat 1200 calories, you are OVER EATING (for
maintenance).

That means you have to reduce your caloric intake to
800, maybe 600 calories a day to maintain a proper weight.

it depends on what your ACTUAL maintenance is. not what you are
ASSUMING it is.

Not only is that
almost impossible to do, but it's downright punitive AND it is caused by
something. It's caused by something because a metabolism that slow is not
normal. Normal caloric intake might be the REASON why someone is overweight,
but it is not the CAUSE.

your problem is you seem to be assuming eating within generic
guidelines means, by definition, your specific person is not
overeating. that and you think eating below guidelines is punitive.

Well, I went on a diet once to lose a few pounds and it was hell. Research
shows that diets don't work and if I had to live on a diet my whole life, I'd
think it was punitive, yes. Luckily I weigh just about what I did in
high-school these days and don't have that problem, but I know people who do.

and a metabolism that slow would suggest a sedentary lifestyle- if you
want to lose weight, but don't want to restrict calories, the solution
is to increase your caloric burn (that'd be achieved via exercise (and
a modification (not necessarily restriction) of diet if you're feeling
motivated)).

 how can you state excessive caloric intake
is NOT the ROOT cause, even though it WILL, by itself, cause obesity?

Because its not that simple. As in the above example, in some instances
NORMAL (not excessive) caloric intake will result in obesity.

if you're gaining weight into obese territory, it IS excessive FOR
YOU- 'normal' intake is meant to be a GUIDELINE, not a set rule.

you seem to have a weird definition of root cause.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Root_cause

Not at all. Caloric intake cannot be disassociated with other factors in
determining the range for ideal weight.  

but you won't gain weight without excess (more intake than output)
calories.

Very few overweight people
overeat though. usually is cause by some source of metabolic slowdown or
by
eating the wrong things. People's metabolism slows and many become more
sedentary as they age and those who continue to eat as they did in their
youth will gain weight.

i would define 'overeat' as eating more than required to maintain a
healthy weight, which would, by definition, mean overweight people
overeat!  when your metabolism slows down, you should eat less, or
exercise more (which juices the metabolism up) to maintain a healthy
weight.  i suppose it depends how you define 'overeat,' and you
probably have a different definition, eh?

No, I don't have a different definition.

you actually do, based on your statements above.

I'm merely saying that most
overweight people don't eat any more than their thin friends.

we'll ignore the fact that this is probably not true, given the widely
acknowledged underreporting of food intake by obese individuals, but
anyways this is not the same as saying they don't have excessive
caloric intake (for them), or are not overeating (for them).

In their
situations, normal eating is "overeating" but that's a RESULT of some
underlying pathology not the cause of the overweight condition.

'normal' eating (per your definition) can be overeating. which should
be obvious given the large range you give for 'normal' intake.

But most modern Americans who are overweight (especially kids) are
overweight
because of the KINDS of food they eat.

yes, foods which contain an excess of calories, meaning they should
eat less of it.

As fast foods have become the norm in
people's diets, average weights have gone up. Also, we have something in
our
foods that should be banned from the human diet - corn sweetener.  This
fructose tends to be stored by the body as fat, rather than being burned
as
energy like sucrose (sugar) is. And corn sweetener is in everything. Maybe
as
the corn crop is needed more and more as motor fuel, it will drive the
price
of corn fructose so high, that the food industry has to go back to cane
and
beet sugar. A good thing.

ah yes, george, ever the true conservative, thinking the gov't should
intervene to protect people from themselves!  hahahahahahaaaa!  :P

Where did I say anything about the government?

you stated that corn sweeteners "should be banned from the human
diet"- who, but gov't, has the power to do such a thing?

You're putting words in my
mouth. The best way to get corn sweeteners removed from the foods we eat is
for the consumer to stop buying those foods that use that ingredient. It can
be done. After all, its not illegal to smoke tobacco, yet grass-roots public
action has turned a population where almost every person above the age of 16
smoked into a society where only a few percent of the population smokes and
that percentage is dropping every year.

largely helped by gov't bans in advertising, gov't taxing, and gov't
bans on where you can smoke. :P

Mostly, the people did it themselves. A grass-roots initiative to get
corn-sweetener out of our diets would work and it wouldn't take long either
for corporations like Coca-Cola and Pepsi-Cola to stop using corn-sweetener.
But perhaps, like I said earlier, market conditions will take care of that
for us. 85/15 fuel for cars and trucks is getting more prevalent and the need
for corn to make the ethanol is putting price pressure on corn sweetner. As
soon as corn sweetener becomes more expensive than cane or beet sugar, it's
gone from most products anyway.


.

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