Re: MacUpdatePromo

Snit wrote:
"nospamatall" <nospamatall@xxxxxx> stated in post fuvu8a$utb$1@xxxxxxxx on
4/26/08 12:02 PM:

Snit wrote:
"Steve Carroll" <trollkiller@xxxxxx> stated in post
trollkiller-55A20C.09211926042008@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx on 4/26/08 8:21 AM:
If developers followed the guidelines quoted above, there would be an
easy way to know which app will work which way. But they don't. Maybe
you should look up what vindicated means, or explain why you think your
original gripe was not vindicated by subsequent revelations.
It was not vindicated because there is no easy way for a user to *see* what
will happen... it makes hitting the red button unpredictable. Even if the
above was followed perfectly the general user would still not be able to
predict... and there is still gray area.
They couldn't predict *one* time... big deal. Most people learn things
*far* faster than you do.
Ah, you expect people to memorize the behavior of every program... how ...
um... clever of you.
Only the ones who don't follow the guidelines.

Ah, so users are supposed to know all GUI guidelines and understand the
working of each program they even play with - instead of having the GUI
inform them. I simply disagree with that stance.

.... any you innocently state that you don't understand why I get worked up!

You disagree with a stance you made up out of thin air, having nothing
to do with what I just said. If developers follow the guidelines then
the behavior will be consistent. Users will know what the app they are
using does, and based on that knowledge they will know what will happen
when they close a window.

Remember, Steve: you are the one who was so unobservant or inexperienced as
to not know how common this was on OS X. I am the one who taught you how
common it is.
It isn't common.

I have shown where it is fairly common... heck, of the 6 applicable programs
I just purchased from MacUpdate *half* of them worked each way. Not saying
it is 50/50 in general but it is clearly not uncommon.

How many times.... Do you want them all to do the same thing then? Why
are you complaining that they do different things? That is not the problem.

I only have a couple of programs that behave badly. It isn't about telling you
what it is going to do; that, as I said previously is useless.

While you might find indicators to allow easier prediction to be "useless",
overall that is one of the tenants of good GUI design.

If a thing is good in some instances, it isn't necessarily good in all.
This is not a critical enough thing to warrant taking up limited GUI
space for all the time windows are open. We do NOT need an indicator to
show us when a bad decision has been made by the program's designer.

It's about doing the right thing and not quitting unless there is nothing else
to do and no background processes running.

And a general user is supposed to know which is what... how?

Doesn't need to know. If there are processes running, they will keep
running, whether the user knows they will or not. If there is no reason
to keep running, the program will quit, whether the user knows it will
or not.

Why add a gui element just to satisfy the curiosity of someone who is
too lazy to just hit the button and find out? Someone who can't remember
being fucked over by a program that forced him to keep the window open
because it wouldn't work without an open window?
And what about
programs such as Photoshop which take a while to load... I would not want
them to quit. Then again you left out the category that it fits in which
makes it so it should stay open - it can have multiple files / "main"
windows open.

Photoshop does not quit. I don't need an indicator to show me that. An
incosistency of some apps staying open when they don't need to is not
really important. If I run into memory problems I can see what is
running and quit what I don't need. The bad thing is what I already told
you, bad decisions on the part of the developer, and no amount of
indicators will solve that.

Funny how you cannot understand that... most people learn thing *far* faster
than you do.





.