Re: I'm sure glad I didn't buy a Mac Mini!


"C Lund" <clund@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:clund-34950B.11365217032008@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
In article <OP2dne-ea_9a1UDanZ2dnUVZ_siknZ2d@xxxxxxxxxxx>,
"Hasta La Vista" <noemail@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
"C Lund" <clund@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:clund-67C042.12094216032008@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> >> >> >> > Yep. Reason? OSX.
>> >> >> >> >> How is that a reason to pay so much more for a computer?
>> >> >> >> > Because you want to *use* your computer.
>> >> >> >> How is it you're exchanging messages with me if OSX is >> >> >> >> required
>> >> >> >> to
>> >> >> >> *use*
>> >> >> >> a computer?
>> >> >> > Because you're happy with "usually works, sorta".
>> >> >> No I'm not.
>> >> > An example of "usually works, sorta" is when I send an email to
>> >> > somebody using Outlook. If that email contains european >> >> > characters,
>> >> > such as æ, ø, or å, there's a pretty good chance that Outlook >> >> > will
>> >> > replace them with chinese characters. This is because of MS's >> >> > crappy
>> >> > implementation of UTF-8. I think this might also be a problem >> >> > with
>> >> > Word.
>> >> It might be an example if it actually were true.
>> > It *is* true. Try googling the topic and you'll find others who
>> > experience the same things. Hey, I'll even google one for you:
>> It's not true for me,
> So what?
So what you said about me is not true. Why does that fail to make an
impact on you?

It's not any less true

What you claimed about me is untrue and will continue to be untrue no matter
what else you write. IOW, you've eliminated all possibility that you made a
mistake and are just an unrepentant liar.


just because you're lucky enough to not be
affected by this particular bug. You have no guarantee that this won't
affect you in the future.

I take the fact you think it will happen as my guarantee it won't! :-D

> You've just been lucky.
Or you've just been unlucky.

Me? No. I'm not using Windows. I'm not affected by this at all.

Or you ought to update your software.

Why should I? This is not a problem that affects maccies.

It's only a problem that affects people who use Outlook and who also get email from you. I begin to see why filters were created! :-D

Or
just take the easy solution.

I did; that's why I use a mac. B)

Just to make problems for Outlook? :-D

> Or maybe you don't exchange much data with
> continental europeans.
I don't, but it works for me nonetheless. On more than one system.

Then how do you know it works for you?

Because it works when I do use it.

>> >> I have no trouble seeing
>> >> your æ, ø or å as they should be, and I can easily type them back >> >> to
>> >> you.
>> > Good for you. There are people I email regularly who do have the
>> > problem I described. Just because you are lucky enough to have a
>> > Windows system that can handle these letters doesn't mean that
>> > everybody does. It just means that Windows isn't consistent.
>> You didn't find a problem with Windows, you found a problem with >> Outlook,
>> which is merely an application running on Windows.
> I know you read G Graves post on the topic. This is more than Outlook.
No, it's just Outlook. George was trying to have an old version of Word
recognize formatting commands from a new version of Word.

Why would that make any difference?

The people who wrote the program couldn't look into the future to see how the document formatting commands would change.

The current version of Pages can
read documents written by ClarisWorks (which is an outdated,
discontinued app from the early 90s). Why can't new versions of Word
read docs made by old versions of Word?

It can. The problem was George trying to get an OLD VERSION of Word to understand the output of a new version of Word.

Sounds like yet another example of "usually works, sorta" to me.

Oh, and that wasn't what Graves was talking about anyway.

Yes it was, and who are you to say? You've shown that you can't even follow what's been said in this discussion.

> Now, one could discuss whether the problem lies with Windows or in all
> MS software that runs on Windows (or maybe just some of it),
We already know that the problems you and George brought up are application
problems, not Windows problems.

Let's call them MS problems instead.

No, let's not call them anything but what they are.

And the fact that this particular
problem appears in more than one MS app

It doesn't appear in more than one MS app. Your problem with Outlook has to do with character sets. George's problem with Word is user error.

indicates that it might be a
problem in the OS instead.

It indicates nothing of the kind.

In George's case it's a user error of
expecting an old version to understand the output of a new version.

Why would you expect any less?

Because program writers aren't fortune tellers. Old versions don't read output formats that didn't exist before the new version was written.

Oh yeah; "usually works, sorta".

Nothing of the kind.

> but
> you're still stuck with "usually works, sorta".
I've already proved I'm not "stuck" with that at all.

Actually, you just did - when you stated that expecting a new version
of an app to be able to read a file made by an older version was a
"user error".

That's not what I said. You reversed what I said.

>> You seemed to have ignored that your reference gave you an easy way
>> around
>> your problem, namely to use ISO-8859-1 instead of UTF - 8.
> You shouldn't have to use a workaround *at all*. On the mac, this kind
> of stuff Just Works?. No workaround necessary.
No workaround is necessary if you switch to using ISO- 8859 -1 to begin
with, instead of looking for a way to convert from UTF - 8 afterwards.

So now you're saying that the maccie who sends the file has to adjust
his/her output so MS's faulty software can read it?

No, just choose a different character set, if your readers are having a problem with your messages.

The MS software I'm using has no problem with reading UTF-8.

> Besides, "using ISO" when the document you're looking at is UTF-8
> involves stuff like this:
[program listing snipped]
> This might look like an "easy way around" to somebody using Windows,
> but to us maccies, this is an unacceptable kludge.

If I had the problem you're talking about, I would have used the easy
solution that you're ignoring, namely to send my documents out in ISO-
8859 -1 instead having the recipient convert it from UTF - 8 to ISO-
8859 -1.

But that still means having to work your way around MS's faulty
software that "usually works, sorta".

No it doesn't. I didn't have any problem reading your UTF -8 output.

It means YOU have a problem with YOUR messages, and YOU ought to change your character set instead of trying to convince the people who get your emails to change their computers.

In other words, you're happy
with "usually works, sorta".

IOW, you're still telling lies about me.

Keep digging that hole. ;)

You're the one holding the shovel, not me.

.

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