Re: Definition of insanity

"-hh" <recscuba_google@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> stated in post
cebc19e1-b6dd-42c1-b193-bc4c2aeefa15@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx on 2/25/08
9:43 AM:

Correct, hence why the two concepts are not synonymous, identical,
the same, equals, things that equate, etc. etc. etc.

I disagree with the interpretation in the above that the definition of
synonymous means identical.

Nope... the two are not even nearly identical - they cannot be swapped in a
sentence without greatly changing the meaning of the sentence.  The two
words simply are not synonyms.  Never will be.

What "they" are you talking about?

To clarify what I'm talking about the "they" would be the words
'identical' and 'synonymous'.

Um, OK.  So do you disagree with me? If so, where?


For (at least) the THIRD time: my disagreement is in your choice of
definition of "synonymous", because it does not adhere to the
conventional and accepted useage in the English language, as
documented through sources such as:

<http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/synonymous>
and:
<http://www.thefreedictionary.com/synonymous.
and:
<http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=synonymous>
and:
<http://www.yourdictionary.com/synonymous>

None of those definitions support the perverted idea that incest and sex are
synonyms of each other. And, of course, you are running from simple
questions, do you agree or disagree with the statements about things being
identical or synonymous:

> Sex and incest, Wally, are not synonymous
Quite right! exactly as I said, but incest and sex are!
- Wally

incest and sex are synonymous - Wally

I on the other hand have maintained that incest and sex are synonymous!
- Wally

"Yet incest IS synonymous with sex." - Tim Adams

"Incest is synonymous with sex because the definitions clearly
prove it." - Tim Adams

"incest IS synonymous with sex, yet you argue against that
FACT." - Tim Adams

"I linked to an article by you that proved you indeed do believe
incest is synonymous with sex, no matter how many times you say
otherwise." Tim Adams
[Please note, you did no such thing! Adams was lying]

"Incest IS sex by the very definition of the words.
Therefore they ARE identical ..."
- Tim Adams

You keep avoiding these questions. The reason is clear: you are not willing
to *directly* support such perverted comments. Ok. I do not blame you -
only a pervert would come right out and say "incest" and "sex" are synonyms
or identical.

....
Then by your "logic", a median is an average and an average is a
median.

Maybe you are looking for the word "mean"?  A median is a different concept.
Again... this is relatively basic knowledge.

No, I'm not looking for the word "mean".

Then you are wrong: a median and an average are not identical nor synonymous
(though sometimes both the mean and the average in a series ends up being
the same number). Then again, the tallest person in the room could also be
the one who has his or her name come first alphabetically - that does not
make the concepts identical (or synonymous).

My illustration with the word "Average" shows that within the English
language, it can be interpreted to be one of several very specific statistical
definitions of central tendency (such as mean, but also a median), which by
invoking a very specific statistical definition means that it does not neatly
tie symmetrically back to "average".

So you want to play semantic games... not interested. And, as far as I
know, the word "average" does not indicate the median but the mean. If you
want to show otherwise as you go off as far from the topic as you can, feel
free.

Go walk it through the Dictionaries to see it for yourself that pure
mathmatical reprocity doesn't always exist within the English
language.

We could also look up the mass of all the planets in the solar system...
though we would need, likely, to look in places other than a dictionary.

For example, you can walk the definition of "average" through to
"mean", but you can also walk the definition of "average" through to
"median". The implications of your attempts to apply math/logic rules
to the English language then lead to the following logical train:

Since:
Average = Mean

and:
Average = Median

Gee, you threaten to sue me, ask others to post my name and personal info,
and now you want to go off topic and talk about means and medians and
averages.

For what it is worth, you are wrong: the concepts of average and median are
not the same. Consider this series of numbers:

1
1
4

What is the median: 1
What is the average: 2

If you need help understanding why just ask... though I am more likely to
help you if you apologize for your BS. Frankly you are simply not a very
pleasant person - you will get more assistance from me if you can learn to
threaten less and post *no* requests for my personal data. Frankly that was
an outrageous request of yours...


therefore:
Mean = Average

and:
Median = Average

and therefore:

Mean = Median


...the train has crashed.

You are certainly off track! And you snip a lot... here, again:

----------
When you are talking about two things being "identical" or "synonymous" it
*is* a reciprocal relationship; this is *logic*, not math. If you really
are confused about this, here are some references:

http://www.geo.unizh.ch/~uruetsch/diss/poset.pdf
-----
The semantic relation of hyponymy is an example: synonymy can be defined as
symmetrical hyponymy (A is synonymous to B iff A is a hyponym of B and B is
a hyponym of A).
-----

http://www.phil.pu.ru/depts/12/RN/Relations.html
-----
Princeton WN and EWN the first way is adopted: ³two expressions are
synonymous in a linguistic context C if the substitution of one for the
other in C does not alter the truth value² [Miller et al., 1990].
....
Synonymy is a symmetric relation, i.e. if A is synonymous to B, B is
synonymous to A.
-----

http://depts.washington.edu/lingweb/ling200/lect17_semantics1.pdf
-----
If A is synonymous with B,
* A and B mean the same thing, A can be paraphrased by B
-----

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=401369
------
Are you thinking of Synonymous?
Instead of saying A is a synonym of B you can say A is synonymous with B.
-----

http://dingo.sbs.arizona.edu/~hharley/522/522Spring1999/Lecture5.pdf
-----
A is synonymous with B if A and B have the same meaning
-----

http://snipurl.com/hgxh
-----
A is synonymous with B if A entails B and B entails A.
-----

http://www.iptc.org/pdl.php?fn=DRAFT-NAR_1.0-spec-NMDF-BusReq_34.pdf
-----
Synonyms are {scheme, code} pairs that refer to the same concept. An
example is "cemetery" and "graveyard". Synonymy is a symmetric
relationship, which means that if A is synonymous with B, then B is also
synonymous with A.
-----
----------

And you snipped the context:

---------
Also keep in mind how this whole stupid debate began... a long, long time
ago: someone who used to be a regular poster jumped from the topic of sex
*to* the topic of incest in a way that made no sense to me. I replied:

Snit: "Incest", for most people, is not synonymous with "sex"...
The fact that *you* equate sex with incest is not my problem.

Wally *still* claimed to disagree and stated such things as:

"Incest, for most people, IS synonymous with sex"
"I have *always* maintained that incest is synonymous with sex"
"I on the other hand have maintained that incest and sex are
synonymous!"

There is no need to debate what meaning of the word "synonymous" is being
used - it was clear from the start based on the fact the word "equate" was
also used.
---------

This is a no-brainer, of course: incest and sex do not mean the same thing.
They are not even *about* the same. They are not identical. They are not
synonymous. They are not things that equate.

And, yes, any non-perverted adult English speaker should be able to figure
this out.



--
"If a million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing."
- Anatole France



.

Relevant Pages

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    ... None of those definitions support the perverted idea that incest and sex are ... synonyms of each other. ... - Tim Adams ...
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