Re: Commercials protraying PC 20 years ago

"Jesus" <rustybucket666@xxxxxxxxx> stated in post
1178139010.382040.4860@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx on 5/2/07 1:50 PM:

Not as quickly as you can with the taskbar. It takes right-clicking
and then finding the window (or if you don't have a right mouse
button, holding down option or holding the left mouse button until the
menu appears). Hardly the most convenient solution.

How is that any slower than hunting for the task in the taskbar, deciding it
is not there and has been grouped, and then clicking on that menu to find
the exact window? That is the default in XP at least... likely Vista as
well.

I have a larger taskbar, so I don't have Windows grouping anything.

Depends on how many windows you have open... by default anyway.

Besides, doesn't the dock group apps by application ALL the time?

Yes - it is consistent. The taskbar is not (though you can turn off this
feature - but if you do then the "tasks" get squished real bad)

If it's OK for the dock, why isn't it OK for Windows to do when absolutely
necessary?

If the taskbar was consistent about this it would not be a problem.

I hardly ever minimize windows.

Same here. That's the point. The dock is very ineffective for task
switching unless you minimize windows. Expose only shows non-
minimized windows. Why is there no easy way to see EVERYTHING? Just
about every other desktop environment offers a taskbar... KDE, Gnome,
XFCE... all of them. Do they all have it wrong?

OS X is different... that does not make it worse.

It can still be considered a "bug" under your definition of the word,
though.

Only if you count it as worse.

I personally happen to see it as not as good. I have no problem using
OS X, but I prefer the taskbar for some stuff.

Then by the very lose definition of bug we are using, to you it might be
seen as a bug, but that does not mean it is to others. Both have strengths
and weaknesses. If we look at other features, such as descriptive dialog
buttons, there is really no upside to not having them be descriptive. That
would be a more universal "bug" (with this lose definition we are using).

Windows does not allow for hiding as OS X does - does that make OS X
better?

For some people. I'm not one of those people. I don't like things
being hidden like that. I like to be able to quickly and easily see
what I have open without having to go through hidden menus for each
app I have open.

Keep in mind that on a Mac if you click the application icon *all* the
windows come up at once. Again, no easy way to do that in Windows.

I rarely have a need for that, though.

Sounds like you have adopted the Windows "way"... most people on Windows do
not do that because they cannot, much like most people on Macs do not tile
their windows as is possible with the Windows taskbar (then again, how many
people even know how to do that with Windows... do you?)

I usually want just one window from a given app, such as one Firefox window or
one Word window. The only app that might make that useful is Gimp, which is a
pain-in-the- ass on OS X due to its need for X11.

I believe their is an OS X native GIMP. Not sure of its status right now.

I usually just hide the application.

You wouldn't have to even bother doing that if OS X offered an actual
maximize window function. That zoom button's a joke. Again, all
others offer a maximize button. Why not OS X?

While I like the idea of a true maximize, and have commented as such in the
past, with screens getting larger the need for that is lessoning. And, of
course, XP does not have a true hide function. Why not?

Windows has no effective way of implementing such a function at the
moment. At least with the dock you still have those triangles to show
you what programs are running, regardless of the program being hidden.

Exactly... they are different but I would not say the dock is necessarily
worse.

For some people it is worse. This is personal preference. I think
there are others that feel the same way, though. Keep in mind that
I'm not saying I hate the dock... I just find it irritating when I
have a large number of windows open. On Windows, all I have to do is
move my mouse to the left side of my screen and click the window I
want to see. They're very easy to find because they're in the order I
opened them, with all windows from the same app in the same area of
the taskbar.

Each has its strengths, but the Mac dock is more consistent.

With that said, on my comparison page I do list as a disadvantage
for OS X:

Dock is difficult to "home in on" and can get in the way

I do not list any of the weaknesses of the task bar other than that items in
the "taskbar" need not be "tasks" by any definition a general user would
understand! Perhaps I should.

I don't really understand. "tasks" on the taskbar are individual
windows. It's not too hard a concept...

Why is an open Explorer window considered a separate "task"? What about
programs with child windows - each "window" is not shown on the taskbar,
only the parent window... so then you are back to being more like OS X but
without a quick way to get to individual windows in the application.
Sometimes if one "task" crashes it takes with it the other tasks from the
same application - other times it does not. No consistency as their is with
the Dock.

If I do minimize them, it only takes a second to see the name of it when
you hover over it. I'd much rather be able to see the name then have a
bunch of things crammed in a task bar.

I don't understand. The dock doesn't show you ANY of the name unless you
hover over it. If you count hovering over the item, Windows also shows
the
full window title using tooltips. In fact, with Aero on Vista, it'll even
show you the contents of the window.

Sometimes it is better to not even try than to do a half-assed job... which
the titles shown by Windows often do.

I disagree about it being half-assed. Again, look at my screenshot.
The taskbar can be a fine tool.

Wait: which screen shot?

Oops. I guess you missed it in another post. Sorry.

http://csma.jesus.googlepages.com/Taskbar.png

No problem. Do you see the weakness of having all those Firefox buttons?
The names are all cut off (well, all but the ones where you have nothing
open... how helpful is that?) To find the "right" one you have to scrub over
them all, *especially* if you have different pages on the same site and they
have their site name first (as many do even in your example)... on a Mac you
just use the contextual menu on Firefox and select them by name. Here is a
screenshot: <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/dock.png>. Notice where all
names are very clear, and where at a glance I can see how many messages I
have waiting for me in NetNewsWire and Mail (with Mail it is separated by
difference folders, but that is via third party). Also notice where I can
easily use the dock to find the application in the Finder (how do you do
that in Windows quickly?) and to set the program to Open at Login (again, no
easy way for most users to do that on Windows).


--
? Teaching is a "real job"
? The path "~/users/username/library/widget" is not common on any OS
? The term "all widgets" does not specify a specific subgroup of widgets




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