Re: Microsoft is in deep trouble and now it is going to die

On Apr 26, 3:01 am, "John Slade" <hhitma...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Apr 26, 3:01 am, "John Slade" <hhitma...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
"KDT" <scarface...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
What does the Zune have to do with this convesation?

So when MS does that they aren't "kooks"?

If people buy MS stuff out of zealotry, they're kooks.


You claimed that Mac users love to make up numbers...Microsoft has
done that repeatedly.

And I guess you were right about the XBox being a money making
venture? I see you have changed your story now....

Nope. And it is a moneymaking industry. Playstaion 2 made money on the
same model. They sold them at a loss and then made money on the games.

The PC industry is a "moneymaking* industry too. That isn't doing
Gateway or most of the other PC manufacturers too much good though.
Again *you* brought up the 24 Million XBox's sold....I merely compared
them to 104 Million Playstation 2's sold.

But I didn't compare them to the current generation.

Nor did I, I compared the PS2 to the Xbox's and PS2+PS3 to XBox+Xbox
360.

Yahoo isn't exactly doing too great these days....
http://finance.google.com/finance?q=YHOO

Yahoo is making money.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahoo

Why quote *Wikipedia* instead of official SEC filings?
In the meantime Apple has been making real money on iPods and wisely
staying out of the console market. I bet you Apple will also make
more money on the iPhone than the measely amount that Microsoft's
mobile division did last year

There you go bringing up new things when it's clear that you're losing
the argument. This is irrelevant.

Do you suffer from a short attention span? The original thread started
based on someone saying that Apple should have gotten in the
*moneymaking* console market like Microsoft did. They were comparing
the MP3 market to the console market. I am making a much more direct
comparison between the Mobile market, which is largely smart phones to
the iPhone.



So now you're lying about your own numbers. Five billion is not that
hard to make up with massive game sell.

Where are these massive game sells on 10 million units? They would
have to make $50,000 per Xbox unit sold.

Dummy, they happen over time. Halo 2 sold seven million copies and
produced a profit for a quarter.


At $50 profit a copy, Microsoft would have to sell 100.000,000 million
copies to make up for its losses..








The playstation
*2* is still profitable for Sony.

That's because of game sales.

You might not know this, but component prices go down over time. The
PS2's component prices have decreased enough for the PS2 itself to
sell at a net profit. The original XBOX never made any money for MS.

The Playstation 2 was sold at a loss when it started out and the
massive
game sales have made money

Again you seem to have a problem with your tenses. The XBox did not
make a cumulative profit during its *entire* lifecycle. The
Playstation 2 was profitable and still is.

The production might be over but they are still selling games for it.
They are still making games for it and will be for a few years to come. Even
if that particular product doesn't make money, that doesn't mean the whole
division will never turn a profit.

So , the whole XBox generation was a complete business failure.....


I thought you said it was $21 billion in losses? LOL.

Yes they can sell enough games to make up that ammount. They don't
just sell games for consoles, they sell PC titles too. Halo 2 for the PC is
about to come out.

Again, they are going to sell 100,000,000 games?


How long did they take again?

About three years....article posted below...

How long did it take?

Sony was making a profit at least by 2003 partly because of
Playstation 2 sales
http://www.emsnow.com/newsarchives/archivedetails.cfm?ID=567'

It was release in Japan in March of 2000

That link appears to be dead. Not surprising since most of your facts
are DOA.

Google cache of the article
http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:MiNBdC7FjlQJ:www.emsnow.com/newsarchives/archivedetails.cfm%3FID%3D567+emsnow+playstation+2003+profit&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us

I notice you're trying to compare the profits of one quarter to years
of losses. That isn't a fair comparisson. In fact, over that time they spent
$21 billion, they must have sold at least $15 billion worth of product. You
said the losses were $5 billion. Now how many years was that? Three or four.
So that means they made an average of $5 billion or $3.75 billion each year.
So you can see it is possible to make back five billion in a few years.

They've only shown that they can make $15 billion while spending $21
Billion. Not exactly a great business model.... So for every $1.00
they make they spend about $1.25
So explain to me why Apple, a publically traded company, should be
concerned with marketshare when it is the second most profitable
computer manufacturer in the world? Why would Apple be concerned
about Dell's 27% marketshare compared to its 5% when it just reported
making over $100 million more than Dell today?

I already explained this. Let the numbers speak for themselves.
(notice he stopped comparing Microsoft and Apple and went to Dell and Apple)

*You* brought up Mac sells. Last time I checked Microsoft doesn't
sell computers.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dell

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_computer

While Dell's profit marin is lower than Apple's, Dell still made about
three times what Apple made. This is because Dell sells lots more computers.
Even at razor thin profits for each computer they make more money.

Dell made about three times the *revenue* not net profit. It's not
about how much you make but how much you keep. Apple has made a
larger profit than Dell the last two quarters. But why do you keep
quoting *Wikipedia* instead of the official SEC reported numbers?



Here's an example. If you sell lemonade and you sell five cups for
five cents each, you made twenty-five cents. If your buddy Bill sells 100
cups for one cents each, he made a dollar. Both people make the lemonade at
the same price. Now would you rather be making twenty-five cents or a
dollar? This is the case with Microsoft and Apple. Microsofts profits dwarf
Apples. Dell's profits are three times as much as Apples. That's with Apple
selling music too.

Dell's *net income* (i.e. profit) is less than Apple's. You are
confusing profit margin (net profit divided by revenue) with net
income (revenue - costs),

http://finance.google.com/finance?fstype=ii&q=DELL
Dell Net Income last reported quarter - $673 Million
http://macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/13416/
Apple's Net Income last reported quarter - $770 Million

Dell Net Income (prior quarter) - $677 Million
Apple Net Income (prior quarter) - $1,0004 Million










Oh yea I'd like to see your Dell and Apple figures for last year.


Not a problem
Apple's *Net Income* for the last four quarters.
http://finance.google.com/finance?fstype=ii&q=AAPL
Quarter ending 2006-07-01 $472 Million
Quarter ending 2006-09-30 $542 Million
Quarter ending 2006-12-30 $1,004 Millon
Quarter ending 2007-03-31 - $770 Million

Total $2788 Million

Dell *Net Income* for the last four quarters
http://finance.google.com/finance?fstype=ii&q=AAPL
Quarter Ending 2007-02-02 $673 Million
Quarter Ending 2006-11-03 $677 Million
Quarter Ending 2006-08-04 $502 Million
Quarter Ending 2006-05-05 $762 Million

Total $2614 Million








/>
You do realize they have are the 2nd most profitable

computer manufacturer in the world, as of last quarter, right?

But failed to gain any significant market share.

Why should they care? Again what matters to any company market share
or profit?

Ask Apple. If OS X gains one point market share, you probably would post
under your real name and brag. I notice you've been here a month with a
google account and a yahoo email. Must be one of those oft ignored people.

Once again tell me why a publically traded company should care more
about market share than net income? Isn't a corporation in business to
make money?




Even
if you take away iPod sales they are still 3rd in the world.

In making profits for the small ammount of computers they make.
However
they aren't even in the top ten when it comes to computer sales. If I
found
the parts to one computer laying on the ground and put them to gether and
sold the compouter for $1000, I'd be the most profitable company on
Earth.

Why hasn't Dell, Gateway, Lenova, or ASUS been able to do that then?

I don't know about the others nor do I care however Dell makes more
money than Apple year in and year out.

You must know something that Dell doesn't. According to both
companies last four reported quarters, Apple made $174 million more
than Dell.

and they switched to Unix and put a GUI over it.

So which version of Unix had the MacOS API's, Quicktime, etc.?

Darwin.

Interesting...go to Apple's website and download the latest version of
Darwin (it is available) and see how much code it contains related to
Quicktime, Carbon, Core Services, etc.....

I'm still waiting....you can go right here....
http://www.opensource.apple.com/projects/darwin/6.0/release.html
download the Darwin sourcecode and see how much Quicktime. Carbon, or
Core Services code you find in it.



Glad you agree. I just can't wait for you to show the info proving
that
Microsoft's Home and Entertainment division had $21 billion in losses.

And you proved that the XBox *is* a moneymaking endeavor?

I already proved you wrong on this issue. You are so crazy to make
Microsoft look bad, you will take numbers and through some wierdo
imagination, inflate them. The fact is you saw $21 billion in that article
and freaked.

Bottom line is. Microsoft makes over ten times what Apple makes.

http://finance.google.com/finance?q=MSFT
http://finance.google.com/finance?q=AAPL

Actually Microsoft's net income is six times Apple's. But I thought
we were comparing the *moneymaking* XBox ("Home and Entertainment
Division") to the iPod?




Tell me
this, how many copies of OS X Tiger did Apple sell and how many copies of
Windows XP did Microsoft sell? I won't compare Vista with the latest version
of OS X because it isn't out yet.

Very few, but Apple is a hardware company that sells computers and
makes software to sell computers. If you want to compare Microsoft's
electronic division to Apple's (which this whole thread was in
response too) you're more than welcome. If you want to compare
Apple's profits in computers to every other manufacturer (even
subtracting iPod sales) you might be surprised.


John


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