Re: Microsoft is in deep trouble and now it is going to die

On Apr 23, 12:51 pm, "John Slade" <hhitma...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
"KDT" <scarface...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
Lets see where to start...

1. Each XBox is sold at a lost, the original poster said that the
video game industry was "highly profitable" for Microsoft.

2. The Playstation *2* is still outselling the XBox 360.
http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/01/12/business/game.php

The Playstation 2 is last generation. I was talking about this
generation.

You brought up XBox's 24 million sold...
3. The WII is currently outselling the XBox 360
http://www.newsfactor.com/news/Nintendo-Wii-Outsells-Xbox-and-PS3/sto...

The actual sales figures still show that the Xbox has sold over ten
million units as of January and the Wii has sold six million as of February.
You have to wait to see the latest figures to make this statement. The Wii
might have sold better over a short period of time but, overal the Xbox 360
has sold more and is still selling well.

But what happens if the Nintendo WII continues to outsell the XBox
360? The 360 has been on the market for over a year longer than the
WII and the WII has sold more than half as many.



"t is likely that the trio will continue to duke it out for market dominance
in the coming years, adding more games and services to capture larger pieces
of the $13 billion U.S. video game market."

You haven't a clue. That's what the Mac kooks do people. They will put
up one month's worldwide sales against Microsofts US only sales. They love
to skew numbers.

Right and the Zune actually has 9% of the US MP3 market as Microsoft
claimed. But when you really look at the claim it comes with a few
caveats.

1. They are only comparing hard drive DAPs (Zune only has 2% of total
sales).
2. They are taking numbers from NPD who does not include sales from
Walmart, the Apple Store (online and off) and Walmart.


But if you want to include XBOX+XBox 360 you have to compare it to
Playstation 2 + Playstation 3 sells.

No. I said this generation of consoles. This generation includes The
Xbox 360, Playstation 3 and the Wii. Of these three, the Xbox 360 has sold
more units woldwide than both of the competitors combined.


No you included the 24 million XBOX's sold.

The Playstation 2 sold well over
100 million units by itself and is still outselling the XBOX 360.
http://www.joystiq.com/2007/03/04/playstation-2-thriving-or-failing/

You want to include the Playstation 2 because you know my figures about
Xbox 360 sales were correct. They are selling more Xbox 360s than
Playstation 3s and Wiis combined. Current numbers show this and you have
only presented US Xbox 360 sales.

Again you are confusing past tense and present tense. They *have
sold* more units than WII, they are currently selling less than the
WII.





5. The WII makes money on each unit sold.
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6157690.html

You just told me that Gamespot was not a good source for financial
information.

Not compared to Microsoft's 10K that was filed with the SEC....

But I will take it as fact for the time of the posting. However
as the Wii drops in price, they will be sold at a loss at outlets like
Circuit City and other stores. Sales will slow down and the price will drop,
the same goes for the Xbox 360.

No, components for the WII are much cheaper than the Xbox 360 and the
PS3. That's why the WII sells for less and still profitable.


During the whole XBOX lifecycle. Microsoft *never* made a profit on
the XBox even after including revenue on the games.

Actually games like Halo and Halo 2 have made profits and have offset
bigger losses. The losses are small when compared to the big picture over
time.

Wow, Microsoft is now resorting to the tactics of the failed dot
coms.....


There are still games being made for Xbox and they will eventually
turn big profits.
I never said that they didn't have losses,

You said that the XBox is a "moneymaking" endeavor. Sure if you want
to be pedantic the Xbox is making money, but not enought to cover its
losses.

I said that it
was a monemaking business. Some businesses make money over longer times.


You said it *is* (again present tense) not that it "might one day make
enough money to be profitable and make up for the $21 billion in
cumalitive losses"

The playstation
*2* is still profitable for Sony.

That's because of game sales.



You might not know this, but component prices go down over time. The
PS2's component prices have decreased enough for the PS2 itself to
sell at a net profit. The original XBOX never made any money for MS.


I also find the numbers suspect as they do not show net profits and
losses. I read in this article on Gamespot that Microsoft's Home and
Entertainment division made a profit. So how does that square with your
figures?

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6117307.html?&print=1

You did notice that this article was in 2005, didn't you?

Yep and it turned a proft, you said it never turned a profit. You were
wrong. Profits are quarter to quarter, or year to year. This shows that the
Microsoft Home and Entertainment division did turn a profit at one time. You
said they never turned a profit. What the author of the article tried to do
was show that they never made a profit. That is a lie.

Wow one quarter out of the 20+ quarters that the Xbox has been for
sell. That's called a pyrrhic victory.

I think this is another Mac kook attempt to skew numbers to make
Microsoft l

ook like it's loosing money like crazy.


No one ever said that Microsoft is not making money but comparing the
Xbox + XBox 360 which has lost $21 billion dollars after selling 34
million dollars "a moneymaking venture" compared to the iPod which has
sold over 100 million and been sold at a net profit from day one is
asinine.



So I guess MS is also a Mac kook. Since their own 10-K shows that the
Entertainment division lost money.

And they made a profit too. Then they will make more profits from video
game sales.

One quarter? But what happened to your contention that the XBox *is*
a moneymaking venture?




No one said that Microsoft is losing money. The discussion was about
the XBox ("Home and Entertainment Division") losing money.>
Here's another article.

http://www.gamedev.net/community/forums/topic.asp?topic_id=317219

And look at the *title* of the article. "Xbox Posts $164 Million
Operating Loss"
Isn't that what I just said?

We've been over this or did you miss it. They sell the consoles at a
loss and expect to make money from game sales.

I'm sure Pets.com and Webvan.com expected to make money to....

But why go by what gamespot says? Look at Microsoft's 10K
http://google.brand.edgar-online.com/fetchFilingFrameset.aspx?FilingI...

Home & Entertainment
2004 - $1.337 billion loss
2005 - $.485 billion loss
2006 - 1.267 billion loss

That's over two years.

Actually that's three...

This is longer term than that. Also those
losses are small when compared to how much can be made five years down the
road.

Can you show me one credible analyst that thinks Microsoft can make
enough from the XBox over the next five years to cover $21 Billion and
growing losses in 5 years?


How long did it take the Playstation 2 to turn a profit?

Definately didn't take five years. But the Xbox *never* made money
during its *entire* lifecycle.

Long term is
a lot more than a couple of years. It's longer than five years down the
road. We're talking at least ten years down the road here. That may seem
like a long time to most people but when talking about profits, it's pretty
short. Microsoft's philosophy has made them 90% of the computer market and
they are now leading in the current game console market.

And losing marketshare to WII....

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/209764_msftearns28.html?dpfrom=th

In the black means profit. You guys love to lie don't you?

1 quarter out of 20 and you're impressed by that?
Apple just announced it sold it's 100 Millionth iPod. Most iPod users
are Windows users. So does that make everyone who bought an iPod, a
kook?

No. But their computer division sells to the kooks who will buy anything
Apple puts out. That's what kept them alive before the iPod came out.

So Mac buyers are kooks but iPod buyers aren't. How convenient.....
So who are the real kooks who kept buying PC's running MS-DOS and
Windows up until '95?


Not Nintendo. But Sony at least made up for its losses through video
game sales during the PS2 generation and now the PS2 sells at a profit
and is still the number one video game console,. Microsoft *never*
made money on the original XBox, including licenses.

I've shown that in one quarter they did make a profit. The games are
still selling and the division will turn a profit.

Maybe, but what happens during the *next* generation when Microsoft is
still selling the consoles at a loss?

Microsoft is such a big
company that the billons they loose might sime huge to a company that makes
less than 10% of what Microsoft makes. Microsoft did not become so big by
making short term investments, they slowly build up their market share.
Microsoft was very smart, they sold thier OS to the masses and that's why
they're 90% of the market. Apple sold their OS to closed systems, it failed,

Apple failed? You do realize they have are the 2nd most profitable
computer manufacturer in the world, as of last quarter, right? Even
if you take away iPod sales they are still 3rd in the world.

and they switched to Unix and put a GUI over it.

So which version of Unix had the MacOS API's, Quicktime, etc.?


Apple made real money when
they sold the iPod to the masses. Pretty soon Apple will put less and less
into OS X and the Mac. The Mac is a PC now and it runs Windows, Apple is
preparing you for when OS X will die off or be offered to all PC users.


Right.....

.

Relevant Pages

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    (comp.sys.mac.advocacy)
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